Simutrans : pak 96 comic

Discuss the free TT-like game Simutrans.
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belugas
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Re: Simutrans : pak 96 comic

Post by belugas » 08 Feb 2009 00:31

I guess that, since I'm not even playing OpenTTD, I would not play Simultrans either.
I do run OpenTTD only to test new features, new codes before committing them.
And of course, from time to time, with my son.
So learning a new game system just to enjoy your cool graphics is not really something I would spend time on, no offense to prissi, which did an incredible job.

Basically, I am not asking for you to perform the conversion. I was more thinking of us doing the conversion from 96 pixels to 64, which is the format OpenTTD uses. And yes, we are using png, indeed.
The difference between the two engines make it so that we wold rather do the conversions ourselves
On the other hand, once finished, you will receive the sprites in 64 pixels, which could then be used by your team to create a 64 pack :)
So you are winning on all sides :)

Keep on thinking about it :)

Thanks again for considering
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Re: Simutrans : pak 96 comic

Post by sojo » 08 Feb 2009 16:47

The problem is pak96.comic is not only a grafikset. I try with it to go new ways at Simutrans.

And pak96.comic is not open source. That could be a problem. There are many many grafics from other authors.

Unfortunally I have no idea how I can make a pakset for TTD. I have tried to find something but I haven't found it.

Can anybody tell me how work a pakset in TTD in german? I think my english is not good enough. Perhaps I could someday make a pakset for TTD by myself. Based on the source from pak96.comic.
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Re: Simutrans : pak 96 comic

Post by DaleStan » 08 Feb 2009 18:38

sojo wrote:Based on the source from pak96.comic.
If by "based on the source from" you mean "using rescaled graphics from", then yeah, sure.
If you mean anything else, forget it. DAT files look like NFO files in about the same way that simuconf.tab looks like the compiled simutrans binaries.

As
sojo wrote:Can anybody tell me how work a pakset in TTD in german?
It's not German, but the English on the tutorial pages should be pretty simple -- for something that teaches programming, anyway. Start with the tutorial on the page I linked to earlier, and run through it, step by step.
Once the first vehicle is working, code the rest of the vehicles from comic. Then the terrain (the easiest part, by far). Once that's done, do the houses (town buildings), industries, and stations, in any order, except that houses must come before industries.

Also, when rescaling, note that a height level in TTD is about half the height of one in Simutrans. 8 vertical pixels per level for pak-64 sized graphics.
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Re: Simutrans : pak 96 comic

Post by NukeBuster » 09 Feb 2009 00:50

So then OpenTTD should have support for Simutrans graphics packs?
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Re: Simutrans : pak 96 comic

Post by This is my name » 28 Feb 2009 14:47

More supplies of screenshots!! :shock:
Version 0.4.5 is here!
http://www.simutrans-forum.de/forum/att ... entid=8624
Image
http://www.simutrans-forum.de/forum/att ... entid=8664
http://www.simutrans-forum.de/forum/att ... entid=8697
Image
(Since 3 images are so big, I have turned it into url to see for yourself)
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Simutrans Forum (Forum Simutrans)
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Re: Simutrans : pak 96 comic

Post by broodje » 01 Mar 2009 12:37

Looks very, very good, a shame proper jn. are not possible (yet) in simutrans, especially the first image would look so much better without those nasty 260 degrees connections for the tram stop.

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Re: Simutrans : pak 96 comic

Post by Circeus » 01 Mar 2009 18:35

As far as I can tell, there is no technical reason why there can't be rounded corners (after all, even though the TT vehicles move in a strict isometric fashion, it still got rounded corners). It's clearly a visual design choice, and not one that is all that bad anyway.

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Re: Simutrans : pak 96 comic

Post by Purno » 11 Mar 2009 09:58

Wow, amazing stuff, interesting concept and it looks cute. As other said, would be cool to see this in OpenTTD too. I've tried Simutrans a few times, but it's kinda hard to get used to the GUI and features when you're used to OpenTTD.

Keep up the good work people! Good pixel painting!
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Re: Simutrans : pak 96 comic

Post by A. Brose » 11 Mar 2009 16:08

Thanky you, guys.
Sorry, rounded corners are currently not planned. It's possible, though. Maybe somebody will make them soon. :)

pak96.comic is under hard developing, so there'll be kinda new stuff in the next version.
And the graphic is also getting better and better. Not even with new graphics - older objects are getting facelifts.

Why days don't have 36 hours? :lol:
There's not much time between work and girlfriend/wife... :D

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Re: Simutrans : pak 96 comic

Post by MrFrans » 11 Mar 2009 22:00

A. Brose wrote: There's not much time between work and girlfriend/wife... :D
THere is your problem you have a girlfriend and a wife. :P
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Re: Simutrans : pak 96 comic

Post by A. Brose » 11 Mar 2009 22:13

*loool*

Actually i "even" have a girlfriend.
But other team members have a wife.
Or a sportscar, ship, tank... Anything else. Who knows, haha.

By the way: I'm still working on nicer city cars. The older cars were to big and a little bit tiny.
Please be patient. :mrgreen:

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Re: Simutrans : pak 96 comic

Post by belugas » 12 Mar 2009 01:13

It is very unfortunate that we cannot come up with an agreement on a cooperation for porting that pack on OpenTTD.
There is a real interest for that type of graphics in our "world".
So... we'll try to build our own, inspired by your work.
Which is, I must add, very impressive. Keep up the wonderful work.
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Re: Simutrans : pak 96 comic

Post by Purno » 12 Mar 2009 06:30

belugas wrote:So... we'll try to build our own, inspired by your work.
That's a waste of man-hours, but if there's no other way... :|
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Re: Simutrans : pak 96 comic

Post by planetmaker » 12 Mar 2009 07:56

Hi,
sojo wrote:The problem is pak96.comic is not only a grafikset. And pak96.comic is not open source. That could be a problem. There are many many grafics from other authors.
Many good OpenTTD graphics have the same problem and even now that most have chosen licenses, many disallow any modification e.g. for purposes like simutrans. But maybe you can sit together with the contributors and can come up with an agreement on a license which allows the use for other games (given due credit of course!), e.g a gpl or a cc license (excluding the no derivative one).
Unfortunally I have no idea how I can make a pakset for TTD. I have tried to find something but I haven't found it.
(O)TTD(P) graphics require also a lot of coding. But there are usually more coders than graphics available for coding - so good quality graphics are the main problem. I'm sure, if there's the possibility to use sprites, there'll be at least some who offer help with coding them for OTTD. Unfortnately I cannot help you out myself with grf coding (though I'd be able to translate for you).[/quote]
belugas wrote:It is very unfortunate that we cannot come up with an agreement on a cooperation for porting that pack on OpenTTD.
There is a real interest for that type of graphics in our "world".
So... we'll try to build our own, inspired by your work.
Which is, I must add, very impressive. Keep up the wonderful work.
It'd be very unfortunate, if it really is true that these amazing work couldn't be used in two so closely related projects... :S - It's be a waste of energy, as Purno very rightfully pointed out. Both projects could IMO profit from a cooperation in the graphics world - even beyond inspiration :) I'm sure there are also graphics from (O)TTD(P) which might find spark sufficient interest with some people to be considered converting in a pak64 things for simutrans...

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Re: Simutrans : pak 96 comic

Post by Purno » 12 Mar 2009 11:46

planetmaker wrote:
Unfortunally I have no idea how I can make a pakset for TTD. I have tried to find something but I haven't found it.
(O)TTD(P) graphics require also a lot of coding. But there are usually more coders than graphics available for coding - so good quality graphics are the main problem. I'm sure, if there's the possibility to use sprites, there'll be at least some who offer help with coding them for OTTD. Unfortnately I cannot help you out myself with grf coding (though I'd be able to translate for you).
I don't agree with your statement that there's usually more coders than graphics. I've seen several project which have been looking for a coder for ages.

However, although a pakset for TTD (a.k.a. "NewGRF") needs graphics and coding, those two tasks can be done by different people. What I'm saying is, if you guys provide us with graphics, I bet there's someone who's willing to do the coding :)
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Re: Simutrans : pak 96 comic

Post by belugas » 12 Mar 2009 14:27

I do agree with you, Purno. And it was the basic idea I had in mind when I walked in this conversation.
But somehow (correct me if i'm wrong, guys), I do have the feeling that it's not going to be the case.

But for sure, encoding theses graphics in OpenTTD is be a job we'd (me and quite a few others) happily do.
Quite more fun then drawing the whole stuff from ground up, if you ask me ;)
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Re: Simutrans : pak 96 comic

Post by Purno » 12 Mar 2009 14:47

Redrawing pixels looking like theirs takes a lots of more time than copying them, while the results are nearly similar ;)
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Re: Simutrans : pak 96 comic

Post by prissi » 12 Mar 2009 16:26

The images would need to be touched anyway as they are 96x96 and needs to be rescaled to 64x64. This is not trivial and usually needs quite some retouching. Furthermore most people underestimates the amount of houses involved here . TTD has about 20-30 houses (era dependent) and we are talking her about more than 120 ... Same for threes. Implementing this set would require (apart from the coding) also a lot of pixel pushing.

Some sources of the graphics can be seen at the german forum in the graphics section: http://www.simutrans-forum.de/forum/board.php?boardid=7 Perhaps one should test how much work it really is and how much details are lost in the conversion before getting serious.

Of course I would like to see cooperation. But this has been a mostly oneside cooperation in the past, most notable exceptions are some vehicles based on DanMacK and Purnos drawings (which of course needed to be reworked for SImutrans anyway by Pixel pushing.) There is a 60% finished project on hiatus using OpenTTD gfx for Simutrans with changed menus to emulate the OpenTTD icon arrangement a little. But both project use a different direction of the sun, different scales for buildings and also different sizes of vehicles (like square root lenght for diagonals and vehicles with length up to twelve instead the maximum of 8 of TTD.) I did contributed from time to time and at least two thirds of the graphics Georg got for the ECS are from simutrans (albeit he did not scaled them properly, imho). But this is Sojos and Alexanders set, thus they decide whether you can use the graphics or not. And both are busy with the german simutrans section anyway ... but I think there has not been a final decision yet.
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Re: Simutrans : pak 96 comic

Post by sojo » 12 Mar 2009 18:24

Thank you prissi. This is right it gives no finial decision yet. But we are under heavy thinking. *lol*

Is here an OpenTTD spezialist, who understood (can read and write, or only reading) german?

And we have more than 120 buildings, yet. This are 57 commercial buildings like shops and offices, 29 industrial like parking lots and small factories and 129 residential buildings like gardens and big houses. And there is something more like citybildings (attractions), factories, townhalls and so on and on.
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Re: Simutrans : pak 96 comic

Post by A. Brose » 12 Mar 2009 18:57

By the way, can somebody tell me something about the color depth of OpenTTD gfx?
And if there's a color palette.

I'd like to rescale some graphics into 64 px size.

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