Dead or on life support?

Discuss a Transport Tycoon-like game being programmed by forum users.

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matsv2011
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Re: Dead or on life support?

Post by matsv2011 » 15 Aug 2010 07:17

I do that, but not this week, because i´m getting a baby ;)

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Re: Dead or on life support?

Post by Vaulter » 15 Aug 2010 13:50

matsv2011 wrote: i´m getting a baby ;)
Ta-Daa! Congrats!!!

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Re: Dead or on life support?

Post by matsv2011 » 29 Aug 2010 10:25

Now i´m back with a son named Neo...

I will work trow a plan in the beginning of the next week. I hope the plan can be expanded with knowledge of other people and experience by the group.

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Re: Dead or on life support?

Post by matsv2011 » 29 Aug 2010 17:56

OK, now a made a pre study about making a general plan for transport empire. Remember, the study is only a study. Se it like a example how a organized
effort could look like.

Hopefully a sharp plan can be very similar to the one in my study to start with.
Attachments
Plan-Transport empire.pdf
Study, nothing more, nothing less ;)
(143.08 KiB) Downloaded 230 times

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Re: Dead or on life support?

Post by Hyronymus » 29 Aug 2010 19:31

Congratulations on your son, mother and son all doing well?

About your general plan: I do believe we have gathered all the things players expect to be in the game a long time ago. Are you sure you're not trying to do that again as that would be a waste of time + energy.

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Re: Dead or on life support?

Post by matsv2011 » 30 Aug 2010 10:35

I think you misunderstood the point of the plan. It´s not about whats about to go in to the game, its about how to organize the actual work.

I used game objects just to exemplify to make it easier to explain. Whats important its not actually the boxes but the interfaces between the boxes.

I just wrote down the parts thatch obviously needed, my intention (as i wrote) was not to represent a complete game, but a starting point. The whole idea is to expand the project in increasing small elements.

To conclude, its not about what, but how.

Every ones fine, because of the generous child leave plan here i can stay home for month with full pay, throw my wife is home to.

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Re: Dead or on life support?

Post by Hyronymus » 31 Aug 2010 21:32

It seems I misunderstood you then :).

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Re: Dead or on life support?

Post by matsv2011 » 02 Sep 2010 13:16

This method is used at all the workplaces i worked on, more or less. Mostly i work with combined technology's (Mechanics, Electronics and Software mostly). I´m actually a mechanic and electric engineer i never worked as a coder, but i´m educated as a program coordinator.

Making a game have some likeness to the physical world. 3D graphics is in ways similar to the way electronics is produced. They routing an physical aspect is almost identical to mechanic simulation, because that what it is.

Someone always get cranky, sick, quite, talks a lot (and work less) or just wana tag along. If the project is small, its usually not relay a problem (usually result in one person working 2-3 looking on).

But if the project is big, that's a huge problem. If not properly planed it usually start the same, one person working, 3-4 looking on. After a while the onlookers start complaining that's nothing happens and the worker quit to escape all the nagging and the project fail. Newcomers often get assigned the most boring parts with almost no instruction by the veterans, and the really don´t want to help the project at all in the end.

I´m not not very popular to work with, but i´m effective. It´s better to close down a project before it fails, it´s better to reassign personal before there failure is obvious.

I really want TE to succeed, i love to help, but i´m a useless coder, half bad graphics artist (okey GFX composer thow), half good 2D/3D artist. Off cause i can´t really help with things i´m bad at. But i´m really good with math, algorithms and project organizing (what i currently work professorially with).

To me, today, TE have all the warning signs of a failing project, but not failing due to lack of qualified personnel, but pure lack of organization.

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Re: Dead or on life support?

Post by Hyronymus » 02 Sep 2010 13:33

Organising a project seems to be hard whenever the projects stems from community ideas.

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Re: Dead or on life support?

Post by Vaulter » 02 Sep 2010 21:02

Yeah! Let me try to at least organize a project code itself :)
Here is some thoughts about overall way to go further. I dunno what uzurpator think about a project state, but believe he undertook or undertaking work on the mistakes. I want that as more as possible developers can be on the same ground while involving to project.
As a engineer, I can only create software architects. I know a lot about HR too, but it is not my specific, and i'm lazy to do it myself, but with pleasure to help someone. Sooooooo :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:
bird.eye.view.png
Bird eye view diagram
(90.03 KiB) Downloaded 2 times
Trying to "organize" more detailed, in progress.
overview.png
Check this out!
(236.09 KiB) Downloaded 2 times
Also, I really insist that there is not good buildings (and software too) without good basement. Math and supplementary. From another side, later we want to use some another game engine. So, I checking and unit testing some TE4 (and other branches :) code.

PS: does anyone know this guy - http://blogs.warwick.ac.uk/tt3d/ ?
just look this videos, really nice tries! http://aj.uwcs.co.uk/TTDotNet/Videos/Instancing_2.avi

so much efforts and ... 4 years of silent...

PSS: Diagrams in UML.... i like standards! :)

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Re: Dead or on life support?

Post by matsv2011 » 05 Sep 2010 12:33

Hyronymus:
That´s very true, and probably why its not very often properly done. It´s also natural because community ideas is very collective and organization often is very top driven, but it don´t have to be, its only tradition.
The problem with community ideas with out proper organization is they often end with a my way or a the highway style, leadership.

Vaulter:
"i'm lazy to do it myself"
Then you most definitely is a engineer, laziness the no: 1 engineering disease :P

Maybe it wasn't that obvious, my planing is about all work, I intentional skiped economics. Both a total project plan and a programing plan is needed. The programing plan is off cause a slave to the total project plan. I see my plan just like a starting-point, everyone involved shod put there stamp on it.

I also see it like a 2 stage rocket. Specialize and generalize. Fist make a engine just to work, maybe just one train, one building, one type of track, the on the second stage ad dozes of engines, vehicle type, game-play elements, economics and so on. But to make it work everything must be totally general in the first stage.

This is will be (if it´s finished) the most complex transport game ever. And like most people already realized its almost impossible to make a complete map of the game without it´s get totally impossible to get e grip of whats it about.

That´s why i prefer a multistage type of project design, 3 or maybe 4 if needed with a total maximum of about 10 blocks in every stage, if its get any more than approx 10 then just break it down to a additional level. Some coders like to write what pasta code of some or anther reason, I say just don´t. Write the code well, it´s always pays of in the end. And document, document and document, make it self documenting if possible. Its boring, yes, but its more boring rewriting the code from scratch later on.

Break apart everything, separate algorithm from data and data from transport code, graphics from sound. Off cause here´s the difference between project managing and code managing.

"PSS: Diagrams in UML.... i like standards! :)"
Of cause, my fault. Everything shod be as well defined as possible. I rewrite the project plan in UML and upload it, how do i suppose to ask about a account?

I like to reduce the code to a bare minimum using project planing, I know its possible, the questing is if we can do it.

Thow your code layout looks to be quite nice, just a couple of more packages it might be ready to start.

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Re: Dead or on life support?

Post by Vaulter » 07 Sep 2010 21:37

I'm working on client-server prototype with ProtoBuf based packets.
Also, trying to find out suitable build script configuration (CMake) for project, with support of sp, mp and ds binaries (single player - client/server in one workflow, mp - client alone for server, ds - dedicated server)

Also trying to figure out suitable programming interfaces and classes to make initial skeleton with scripts loading support.
I think that stuff in scripts can gives us a lot of fun with resources and entity's behaviors of the game. And such core implemented on c++ will consist only from thing that really needs to be fast and which will be serve other resources from dynamically loaded scripts.

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Re: Dead or on life support?

Post by Vaulter » 07 Sep 2010 21:39

Also, I hope, that well designed interfaces (programming) of packages and modules will gives us ability to efficient work in parallel mode on different parts of system.

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Re: Dead or on life support?

Post by matsv2011 » 08 Sep 2010 07:46

It sounds perfect to me, it will also heavily increase the number of programmers available.

But i have some problem with the UML, don´t have time for it today.

Well, as log as the base good the skeleton should be flexible, then it does not really mater if its slightly wrong in the beginning.

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Re: Dead or on life support?

Post by matsv2011 » 08 Sep 2010 10:02

Proposal of main organization, i hope everyone is on-board.
Primary task
matsv2011 (that's me): Main project coordinator (And to be decided handler)
Vaulter: Coding coordinator
Uzurpator, An00biS, cbqza: Independent block coders


Secondary tasks:
matsv2011: Math and physics consultant, secondary scripter, recruiter, building modeler
Fill in your skills.

Of-cause, this is a suggestion, everyone have to agree. I think we need additional 2 coders, but we have people to start working.
(Updated)
Last edited by matsv2011 on 08 Sep 2010 14:55, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Dead or on life support?

Post by Hyronymus » 08 Sep 2010 10:39

OK, one public forewarning before I get medival on you all:

Use the edit-button instead of double posting.

And as mentioned in another topic: you can remove my name from the list. Thank you.

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Re: Dead or on life support?

Post by Vaulter » 08 Sep 2010 19:40

Hyronymus wrote:OK, one public forewarning before I get medival on you all:
Use the edit-button instead of double posting.
And as mentioned in another topic: you can remove my name from the list. Thank you.
I think this is forum engine issues - to merge double posts.
Anyway, we just should to make a google group :)

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Re: Dead or on life support?

Post by matsv2011 » 09 Sep 2010 11:26

Can´t we just use a MSN/ICQ/Skype communication and a file dump, its probably the fastest method...?

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Re: Dead or on life support?

Post by orudge » 09 Sep 2010 16:45

matsv2011 wrote:Can´t we just use a MSN/ICQ/Skype communication and a file dump, its probably the fastest method...?
Well, if you're just wanting to work on a private project between yourselves, of course. But Transport Empire itself is a public, forum-run project under the GNU GPL, so it probably makes sense to at least do things "in public".

And besides, I own and host all the Transport Empire sites/domains/repositories, etc, and they're staying here, unless agreed otherwise by everyone. You're free to fork the project, of course, but that would seem to be a bit pointless to me really, considering how few resources the project has as it is.

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Re: Dead or on life support?

Post by matsv2011 » 09 Sep 2010 17:06

Don´t misunderstand me, of cause the project is public, and all development and project document public to.

But some times people need to talk and get a instants response.

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