3D Map games, and its problems...

Ohad · Post by **Ohad** » 19 Aug 2006 17:41

I downloaded the Railroad Tyccon 3 Demo, and I must say I HATE it's 3D Map!
It is very hard to get the "picture" that you want to see, there are some
more annoyng variables that using in games that their maps is 3D.
(Like visibility and so on...), and thing that are far gets smaller which make
the game harder.
I think that for example Railroad Tycoon 2, Locomotion, RCT 2, Sims 1,
C&C (All the verisions) are much easy and facile than Sims 2, RCT 3,
Railroad tycoon 3 etc.

I think a 2D Maps are much better for this type of games,
What do you think about it? Do you think that the 3D games are as easy as the 2D? or even more comfortable?

Steve · Post by **Steve** » 19 Aug 2006 19:07

In theory all 3D games can do exactly what a 2d game can, just set the camera and leave it there. I'm fully aware of the problems you walk about though and it'll definitely be something for us to consider. Keep the graphical enhancements down so we can display more on the screen. But hopefully we can keep it in full 3D.

XeryusTC · Post by **XeryusTC** » 19 Aug 2006 20:56

Experience just depends on how well the camera handles, RRT3 is really weird with it's zooming for instance, using the arrow keys to zoom is pretty weird as it uses different levels, the mouse however allows smooth zooming but it doesnt work as nice.
And indeed, you can have the camera in such a setup that the game acts like a 2D game, we could have some fixed camera positions like an isometric view or a topdown view.

aarona · Post by **aarona** » 21 Aug 2006 01:33

Okay this may open up a can of worms...

Although I guess this could be customised, what should the key/mouse commands be to perform the following actions.

Map movement (TT has RMB with mouse move)
Rotation
Zoom
Pan/Orbit/Strafe
Pitch/Yaw (no Roll)
etc. etc.

Each game has their own style and we need to pick one which allows us freedom to build without the hinderance of the mouse/keyboard commands getting in our way.

With regards to Ohad's comment. I agree, one of the issues I see arising is displaying the height gradient information in 3D. RR2 does this very poorly, so much so that you have to rely on numbers appearing telling you the gradient. (It reminds me of the old Settlers I days)
I see this as important as a hilly route is less desiable than a flat one.
RR2 also has the problem that you can lay track in places where you didnt want it to go, and it wasnt cheap to redo it.

Hellfire · Post by **Hellfire** » 24 Aug 2006 19:03

Ohad wrote:I think that for example Railroad Tycoon 2, Locomotion, RCT 2, Sims 1,
C&C (All the verisions) are much easy and facile than Sims 2, RCT 3,
Railroad tycoon 3 etc.

Interesting that you mention Command and Conquer. Do you like C&C Generals? Generals also has 3D maps...

Ohad · Post by **Ohad** » 25 Aug 2006 08:19

Maybe Generals has good interface, I don't remeber that its map is annoying like the other games.

Purno · Post by **Purno** » 27 Aug 2006 09:17

You can use a 3D world, as long as the camera handles just like isometric.
[EDIT]Like Age Of Empires 3, C&C Generals[/EDIT]

Tho, the only good 3D camera handling I've is that of Trainz Railroad Simulator.

m4rek · Post by **m4rek** » 24 Oct 2006 10:07

perhaps make the camera fully adjustable but have view reset points that you can reset to if youve lost your camera. also, could you make the camera attachable to vehicles and such...

m3henry · Post by **m3henry** » 30 Oct 2006 17:44

M4rek wrote:...also, could you make the camera attachable to vehicles and such...

yes that is a nice feature, like RCT3 ride on coaster.

Purno · Post by **Purno** » 30 Oct 2006 17:56

Heh, since it's 3D, I guess you could even have an on-board camera.

Hyronymus · Post by **Hyronymus** » 30 Oct 2006 22:56

Purno wrote:Heh, since it's 3D, I guess you could even have an on-board camera.

That's an odd conclusion. Having an on-board camera has nothing to do with a game being 3D. The vehicle window screen in TTD essentially is an on-board camera and TTD is 2.5D.

Arathorn · Post by **Arathorn** » 30 Oct 2006 23:00

What Purno means is a driver's view camera.

Purno · Post by **Purno** » 31 Oct 2006 10:48

Indeed. An on-board camera, as the name says, is on board. Which means, IN the vehicle, not flying above it like in TTD (that'd make the camera outside the vehicle, and thus not on-board anymore). It's the drivers view indeed.

EDIT: (Just compare it with a train simulator, or a race game, or a flight simulator)

Post by **WWTBAM** » 31 Oct 2006 10:59

how about being able to sit in the brake van if the train has one and looking backwards, and the same for buses, and what about being able to look out of the side windows.

Hyronymus · Post by **Hyronymus** » 31 Oct 2006 11:05

This is all far too detailed. Let's just hope that a forward looking camera makes it to the game.

Post by **WWTBAM** » 01 Nov 2006 01:47

yeah. I was thinking about controls I would feal comfortable with last night, so here are my ideas. Right mouse click moves tha map around at the pointer, could also allow 90 egree rotation on that spot (would only be for horixontal rotation). Left mouse button rotates the camera in any direction. Mouse wheel would be zoom in and out.

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3D Map games, and its problems...

3D Map games, and its problems...

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