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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:29 am 
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As many are now waking up and seeing, a fire has broken out in Grenfell Tower in London at around 12:30 AM BST (7:30 PM ET). The entire building is in flames and fire crews fear that the entire building has been burned "to the core" and is at risk of collapse, as debris can be seen crumbling from the building exterior.

Rescuers are still trying to remove people from the building, no deaths are yet reported. Early on several residents made panicked posts on social media sites that they were trapped in their units, unable to leave due to smoke. London Fire Brigade made several posts on social media updating residents and the public as to what was happening. Crews at the scene were treating residents for various injuries.

40 engines and over 200 fire fighters are at the scene of the 27-story, 120 unit building. There is not any discussion that this was an act of terrorism. It is believed that the fire started on the 4th floor of the building. As I'm watching live video now, much of the building is charred, and you can still see flames in the upper levels of the building.

More info: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-40269625
Photos from DailyMail.co.uk: https://goo.gl/l8KXNb
Live video via NBC4 (Columbus, OH) Facebook: https://goo.gl/6nFYD5

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:49 am 
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On TV in Australia too.

Wish and pray that all the residence in that building are safe and those that are injured not too serious.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:55 am 
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It is believed to have started with a faulty Fridge-Freezer on the 4th floor.

But the failings of the management company in that building are becoming clear. No Fire/Smoke alarm system was operational and numerous warnings about the risk of fire spreading in that building have been ignored.

The cost of proft it seems is the innocent lives of those who lived there :(

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:56 am 
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Few years ago, the building was given plastic based cladding to the exterior to shut up anoying richer neighbours complaining it was an eyesore. At this point it seems almost certain that the cladding is what allowed the fire to grow so quickly throughout the tower both internally and externally.

Lots of awkward questions for the company who did the cladding, it looks as if there weren't any breaks in cladding between floors / flats so the fire had a clear path to spread through.

edit: this image here really demonstrates the cladding (all the grey below the point of fire) - it's on pretty much every inch of the exterior building, so its easy to see how the fire all spread so easily and quickly the image.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:19 am 
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Local (unconfirmed) reports have the death toll at 150 including 50 kids.

If that's true there will be riots.

There have been 129 deaths due to terrorism in Great British soil since Lockerbie (so not including NI or 9/11).

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:59 am 
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Pray that those unconfirmed reports are wrong and death toll is no where near what they say.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:15 am 
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Wow. Those numbers are absurd. So sad to see this. It's a true disaster and even though it does the victims no justice, heads have to roll. Whoever legalised that type of construction material, whoever ordered it to be installed, and whoever failed to install proper fire alarms and the like. This is very sad.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:54 pm 
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Dave wrote:
If that's true there will be riots.
The British do not have the stamina for a riot of considerable length to do anything of any real value in the faces of Parliament. It always peters out after 2-4 days maximum.

I love Theresa Mays reasoning for not seeing the victims, "security issues". Dear Queen Lizzy went and saw them though, what security issues?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:14 pm 
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God they're making petrol station roofs there !

Anyway, I wonder, how old has this building stood ? Surely is it not in any renewal order ? Looks like a tired old building...

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:03 pm 
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YNM wrote:
Anyway, I wonder, how old has this building stood ? Surely is it not in any renewal order ? Looks like a tired old building...

Designed in the late 60s and completed in the mid 70s. It's exterior was redone which was completed roughly a year ago, the main improvements were cladding to the side and some improvement to ventilation done in the interior.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 2:10 am 
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Flammable cladding which was banned even in the safety lax, profit first USA.

Several knowledgeable sources have commented saying they've never seen a fire like it.

BBC now reporting 30 dead and 70+ missing. Local reports have upped to 200. We will see what's true.

For what it's worth, people did riot tonight, and stormed Kensington town hall.

Heads will roll, and so they should.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:31 am 
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The Guardian has taken to penning a strong editorial against the government and its continual hacking of budgets at every department, which played a part in the Grenfell Tower disaster.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... tower-fire

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:15 pm 
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I wonder if a couple of fire fighting helicopters could have stopped the fire from spreading thru the cladding.

The High Rise Firefighting System, nicknamed the SkyCannon

Simplex, November 23, 2015 - Simplex Aerospace has announced the receipt of an FAA STC for its High Rise Firefighting System, Model 516, for the Airbus Helicopters H225.

The High Rise Firefighting System, nicknamed the SkyCannon, also recently received a Japanese JCAB. This Simplex SkyCannon will be the first helicopter based high-rise firefighting system to be operated in Japan.

The Simplex Model 516 SkyCannon was delivered to Japan Aerospace for delivery to Tokyo Fire Department. The flight test was performed September 2015 at Tokyo Fire Department.

“The SkyCannon is a rapid response skyscraper firefighting system with the capabilities of a ground based fire truck. The SkyCannon allows aerial firefighters to arrive at a fire quickly, free of traffic congestion, and prevent the fire from spreading as ground firefighting crews combat the fire from within the building providing occupants valuable time to evacuate. To date, Simplex has produced SkyCannon systems for the Avicopter AC313 and Airbus Helicopters H225, and the company plans to adapt the system to additional aircraft platforms in the future,” president and CEO Mark Zimmerman explained.

The Simplex Aerospace SkyCannon High Rise Firefighting System is the result of several years of research and development into determining an efficient and safe method for fighting high-rise building fires. Fires in high-rise buildings can quickly grow out of the range of conventional ground based firefighting equipment.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:52 pm 
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Perhaps they could have, had they arrived within minutes. The fire spread from floor 4 to the very top so very quickly, any firefighting measure would have to have been applied very quickly for it to have any effect.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:51 pm 
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Vertically the fire spread in less than 30 minutes, on one side of the building, but for it to spread to the other sides horizontally took quite a bit longer. I wonder if preventing the fire from engulfing the entire building, as opposed to half, would it have made a difference. I'm under the impression that the fire was also spreading vertically internally, and especially smoke; that's what was preventing people from evacuating down the stairs, not the burning cladding, I reckon.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:00 pm 
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Fancy it might have made a difference, but the consequence of all these deaths is far wider than the cladding.

London fire brigade said they couldn't fight as they normally would (from the core out) because it was too overpowering.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:28 pm 
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Dave wrote:
London fire brigade said they couldn't fight as they normally would (from the core out) because it was too overpowering.

Well, the "fire core" being around the building sounds like a terrifying nightmare...

Still, presumably they'd need to take longer for helicopters to be out (filling water tanks, health and safety forms filling (?), distance from nearest possible heli site, etc.) and I've never heard any emergency helicopters flying in London for anything...

Not everyday you got a lesson that bitter I presume. I just hope they can change the building codes, the "stay put" thinking seems to be very counter-intuitive when the forces are barely ready !

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:06 am 
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Train<In>Vain wrote:
I wonder if a couple of fire fighting helicopters could have stopped the fire from spreading thru the cladding.

I'm not even sure if the UK has any firefighting helicopters that can aim a water spurt, instead of just dumping it downwards directly.
Aerial firefighting is more common in places with wildfires, such as the US state of California, or Australia. Not sure if the UK has any of any type in regular usage.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:57 am 
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I'm sure it could have helped. The fire raged for several hours. But I noticed it's not certified for UK or European agencies, only US and Japan. The company also sold a system last month to China.

What would have helped more was if the fire suppression system within the building was working, and if firefighters had access to water inside the building. Apparently neither were working. If they had, what they would have done was send a team to multiple floors at once and fight the fire from the inside outward, while crews on the outside suppressed flames and outbreaks.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:28 am 
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kamnet wrote:
The fire raged for several hours.
More like a day or two. It took a while for the fire fighters to put out the fire entirely, small pockets of fires remained within individual flats for over 24 hours after the fire started.

The cladding was apparently NOT legal for use in the UK, according to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Philip Hammond. So there might be legal proceedings taken against the council and the company who put it up there.
You're right in that the internal fire suppression systems and water hydrants were in a poor state and didn't work or barely worked. Something the tenants had noted for many many months prior to the incident, so there's another liability issue there.

Starting today (Monday), the government is making available funding of £5,500 ($7,000 US / €6,270) to each tenant who was displaced by the fire, with the suggestion that more will be made available at a later date. The government has put aside £5,000,000 (5 million) for the Grenfell incident, so I'm assuming (hoping) that eventually all of that will be spread around the tenants, and that figure does not include the cost of the public inquiry / court proceedings / investigations which is a seperate pot i'd hope.

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