UK EU membership referendum

[oftcrash]

Back in the late 90s I was living in Minnesota when Jesse "The Body" Ventura was elected governor. The next morning everyone was in a state of "oh my god, what have we done?" No one, including Ventura, expected him to win.

[Pyoro]

Put simply, Brexit supports are probably more likely to vote UKIP and might also be likely to have a lower level of education. I know this is true for Sweden, I am only assuming it is true for the UK.

I'm frustrated because yesterday I saw some nice statistics on who was most likely to vote for what, answering exactly this question, but I must've typed something really creative into my search machine, 'cause I can't find it again ^^;

Either way, yes, most likely to vote for Remain were young people, in education or having a higher eduction, in managerial positions, in certain areas (like Scotland ) and a few other factors. Females very slightly more so, for example.
While Leave was more likely to be voted by older people, with lower eduction, in laborer jobs and again depending on where you live.

There was also something in about owning a house/apartment/... and having paid it off or not, but I don't remember what the conclusion there was.
Oddly enough I don't think they included migrant backgrounds or anything (you'd think they'd be inclined towards Remain, but I read similar studies about US and immigrant political views and astonishingly they have a big tendency to, err, have unexpected views on a variety of things. Wouldn't be surprised if it was the same here, but who knows...)

And yeah, like you say, it's pretty much the same picture in Germany.

[orudge]

Not to mention, that old people have lived through the EU from joining it and have seen the demise of the country's industry ever since.

The EU wasn't responsible for any decline in our industries - many would blame Thatcher for that. Plenty of other EU countries have thriving manufacturing industries, for instance. Indeed, so do we - it's just they require fewer people these days (more automation), and often many of the companies running them are foreign owned. It's UK governments who have been selling off nationalised assets though (and encouraging the same in the EU) - it seems many of the Leavers' claims should really be aimed at Westminster, not Brussels.

The UK in the 70s was regarded as the "poor man of Europe" - is that what people want to go back to?

I don't think it'll all be doom and gloom, but I don't think this is a good move either.

[Pilot]

People with low educational attainment (GCSE or less) in the group all voted leave

I must be one of the odd one's out of people who only completed GCSEs then!

[kamnet]

Not to mention, that old people have lived through the EU from joining it and have seen the demise of the country's industry ever since.

The EU wasn't responsible for any decline in our industries - many would blame Thatcher for that. Plenty of other EU countries have thriving manufacturing industries, for instance. Indeed, so do we - it's just they require fewer people these days (more automation), and often many of the companies running them are foreign owned. It's UK governments who have been selling off nationalised assets though (and encouraging the same in the EU) - it seems many of the Leavers' claims should really be aimed at Westminster, not Brussels.

The UK in the 70s was regarded as the "poor man of Europe" - is that what people want to go back to?

I don't think it'll all be doom and gloom, but I don't think this is a good move either.

All of this will only benefit the wealthiest of people who hold broad interests in finance, industry and manufacturing. It's a common tactic seen around the globe which reduces the amount of wealth and real property that the working class holds and essentially transfers it to the wealthy by means of "public-private partnerships" and privatization of national assets. The wealthy then turn around a pull the strings of politics by blaming the marginalization of their middle class on the poor, and when they can no longer do that will then blame working- and lower-class immigrants and refugees, and will proclaim that the same corrupted government which enriched the wealthy are the ones to blame for providing much smaller sums of wealth to the poor, who are just barely hanging on because of it.

[Leanden]

Can i suggest we delete this thread altogether. The referendum has done nothing but divide all groups of people and im sick of it. Its over, its done, theres no going back and no sense debating or arguing any more.

[Pyoro]

Ignoring problems generally doesn't make them go away. ^^

[kamnet]

I think there's good, productive discussion to be had.

"You lost, suck it up" doesn't make for good, productive discussion.

[Muzzly]

CldocN-UkAAq47M.jpg (79.76 KiB) Viewed 2146 times

[siu238X]

Can i suggest we delete this thread altogether. The referendum has done nothing but divide all groups of people and im sick of it. Its over, its done, theres no going back and no sense debating or arguing any more.

It really depends on the mentality of the participants.

I see the people here usually talking with sense, unlike the comments under most mainstream media reports.

If you find anything particularly offensive that makes you feel the thread should be closed, I suggest you send a report to the moderators and let them decide

[Drury]

Yeah this thread may quite possibly be the mildest discussion on the matter on the whole dang internet.

[siu238X]

Not to mention, that old people have lived through the EU from joining it and have seen the demise of the country's industry ever since.

The EU wasn't responsible for any decline in our industries - many would blame Thatcher for that.

The controversial nature of Thatcher's legacy would probably go on for many, many years. Reformists in China are often controversial for 1000 or even 2000 years. (and no I'm not exaggerating: See this 2k-year case and this 1k-year case)

Not to mention, that old people have lived through the EU from joining it and have seen the demise of the country's industry ever since.

Plenty of other EU countries have thriving manufacturing industries, for instance. Indeed, so do we - it's just they require fewer people these days (more automation), and often many of the companies running them are foreign owned. It's UK governments who have been selling off nationalised assets though (and encouraging the same in the EU) - it seems many of the Leavers' claims should really be aimed at Westminster, not Brussels.

If Westminster governments are to blame, at least this referendum also reflects how Westminster -- and Greater London as a whole -- is detached from the rest of England.

Meanwhile, I also believe the stance and attitude of some EU officials (e.g. Juncker) probably stirred up "Leave" sentiment considerably -- not even a tragic loss of life was able to avert this.

[Drury]

Neat, so there was is a petition for a second referendum, crashing the website multiple times.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

Maybe a shot in the dark, but maybe it's not all over yet.

[Ameecher]

As much as I am not a fan of the result. You can't just hold it again because we don't like the result. That makes a mockery of the system and could be potentially destabilising and cause significant unrest. Sets a dangerous precedent that.

[kamnet]

If it's not Constitutionally binding, why not?

[Drury]

As much as I am not a fan of the result. You can't just hold it again because we don't like the result. That makes a mockery of the system and could be potentially destabilising and cause significant unrest. Sets a dangerous precedent that.

Then again the same is true for literally everything that's currently going on, and I bet remain is the better option in the long run.

[JGR]

As much as I am not a fan of the result. You can't just hold it again because we don't like the result. That makes a mockery of the system and could be potentially destabilising and cause significant unrest. Sets a dangerous precedent that.

I rather doubt that the EU would be best pleased with waiting for a whole additional referendum to be conducted, which would realistically take months at minimum, and put everything else on hold even further.
Both the UK government and the EU appear to be treating the result as binding, and are already acting on it, so another referendum seem improbable. Cameron and Hill wouldn't have (de facto) resigned if this was just an "advisory" poll that they could ignore.
At this point they can only really try to limit the severe damage of leaving.

[siu238X]

As much as I am not a fan of the result. You can't just hold it again because we don't like the result. That makes a mockery of the system and could be potentially destabilising and cause significant unrest. Sets a dangerous precedent that.

Then again the same is true for literally everything that's currently going on, and I bet remain is the better option in the long run.

It cannot be truer

And that's the very reason why I agree with Ameecher. If vote results can be overturned like that, the people are probably making mockery of themselves on top of every existing mockery.

[Geo Ghost]

"You lost, suck it up" doesn't make for good, productive discussion.

Here here.
I'm sick of people saying the remain people should just 'get over it'.
Sorry, but no. If you truly believe in something, you fight for it. If you don't think something is right, you argue against it and stand by what you think and feel.

[YNM]

As much as I am not a fan of the result. You can't just hold it again because we don't like the result. That makes a mockery of the system and could be potentially destabilizing and cause significant unrest. Sets a dangerous precedent that.

I'm sick of people saying the remain people should just 'get over it'.
Sorry, but no. If you truly believe in something, you fight for it. If you don't think something is right, you argue against it and stand by what you think and feel.

Everyone had the chance. People already argued against each other. Then the system worked the result.

Blame no one. If anything, focus on what's next, because even if the UK were to remain in the EU you have to do that (which, as they promised, to reduce the scrutiny). The alternate history isn't much farther off without any real planning of future.

Also, leaving the EU doesn't mean you lost everything about it. Some treaties can still be conserved. Personally if a second referendum were to be held that's the problem to be asked wide, loud and clear.