Scotland - The Independence Referendum

[Born Acorn]

So, there was a pretty big deal recently with an independence referendum in Scotland. If you're unfamiliar with the setup of the United Kingdom, see this:



The referendum was to establish if Scotland wished to remain in the UK. The question was "Should Scotland be an independent country?", with Yes and No answers. The two campaigns ran for the best part of the last two years, with the No vote ahead in the Polls until last week, when Yes overtook slightly.

It makes a nice change to have had a referendum on independence take place with consent of the government that stands to lose, without tanks on the streets or armed militia patrolling every voting station. Although, sadly, tonight some of those violent nationalist types (those EDL/football hooligan types) have come out to cause trouble in Glasgow.

The turnout was 85%, out of 97% registered to vote, with 16 and 17 year olds also being granted the ability to vote. The results were:

44.70% YES
55.30% NO

Full Results

In the aftermath, it appears Russia's observers wish to call foul on the results and Alex Salmond, the first minister of Scotland, has also announced he will be stepping down after this No vote.


Any thoughts? Maybe selfishly, I personally, as someone who identifies as Welsh before British, I'm happy that either a No or yes vote could mean more powers (and more critically, funding) for Wales. I am also sort of pleased the Union will stick together for now, although likely as something else in the coming years.

[Redirect Left]

I was quite surprised the rejected ballot number was only 3,429. Very low, so the Scots took it very seriously.
Personally, I am quite please Scotland decided to stay in the United Kingdom for now, and I hope the government will make good on its promises to give Scotland further powers.

In other news, the referendum has led to some amusing memes in various places.

[Pingaware]

I was a strong No supporter (although privately and in the Midlands and without actually having any real connection to Scotland whatsoever) because I genuinely believed that the Scots would get the better deal from a No vote. So I am, nautrally, very glad that they voted No.

[teccuk]

That video is fantastic and most British people will admit to knowing a lot of it.

The UK's administrative and constitutional makeup is such a mess. No one has been bothered before because it sort of worked. But it doesn't anymore. I hope we take this chance to sort it out.

[SHADOW-XIII]

@orudge: Orkney Islands - Highest % of "NO" with 67.20%

And no wonder Russia's observers found it foul "complaining the count took place in rooms that were too big and that the procedure was badly flawed" - they usually count the votes before opening boxes in small rooms with few people in them ... I'd imagine

Anyway, I think it's good Scotland stayed in UK, to be honest I could see no real benefit of leaving UK. Scotland's already having own parliament and separation from UK and I don't think more is needed. Yes, they would have an own, separate country but would have to establish pretty much everything, not having much money they would have to loan some and in turn increase taxes.
In there days it's better to be in the big family than on it's own.

[kamnet]

If that was the case, Puerto Rico wouldn't keep narrowly declining to join the United States as a full state rather than a governed territory.

I'm sure it will all work out for the best, especially if the UK government follows through on giving more autonomy to Scottish citizens.

[Dave]

Puerto Rico's decision to not join the United States is probably for very different reasons than Scotland's pro-independence campaign...

[JamieLei]

I do love how Labour are currently crapping themselves at the prospect of not allowing their Scottish MPs to vote on English matters (the current 'English' parliament would have a Conservative majority) ! Looking very VERY bad for them right now.

[Chris]

Well I don't think many people actually care that Scottish MPs vote on things that only affect England or England and Wales. I would say that the regional differences within England are just as big as those between Wales and Scotland... Devolve more power to the regions.

David Cameron has just seen 'an English parliament' as an easy way of placating people wanting more devolved power without actually changing anything (and of course nicely for Cameron it will be nearly always conservative dominated). It won't change how London gets ~£2500 transport spending per capita when Yorkshire or Leeds gets ~£200, Leeds is having to fight tooth an nail to get a £250 million rapid transport scheme partially funded which it desperately needs (and is a continuation of the supertram proposals from the 90s).

[doktorhonig]

That dude from the video is surely optimizing his phone bills.

I also found that article very interesting. It makes sense that scottish people rather be part of the big British Empire than some appendix to England.

I think, in the end it didn't matter that much. If the English fear the secession of Scotland, they will hand out more freedoms, so the Scots can do a lot on their own. And if they really split up, they wouldn't have any problems joining the EU (maybe even Schengen) anyway. They wouldn't adopt the Euro though, I guess. Not after all the fuss about Greece.

In a European Union with borders practically open for all citizens and businesses, it's just not a big deal to live in a smaller country.

[Dave]

Three words... Value Added Tax

[JamieLei]

Well I don't think many people actually care that Scottish MPs vote on things that only affect England or England and Wales. I would say that the regional differences within England are just as big as those between Wales and Scotland... Devolve more power to the regions.

North East Assembly. In a referendum, they overwhelmingly didn't want it.

[Chris]

I don't know a whole lot about it, but from what I do know, it wasn't explained to the voters and it was just a bit of a debacle a la AV

[orudge]

North East Assembly. In a referendum, they overwhelmingly didn't want it.

As I understand it though, the proposed assembly wouldn't actually have done anything useful. It wouldn't have had powers comparable to Scotland or Wales, for instance.

There seems to be more of an appetite amongst some for an English parliament of some sort. Proper regional devolution might be a solution, or possibly a single English parliament would be fine. London already has devolution, so in theory an English parliament should be less centred around it - although that doesn't seem to be the case just now with the UK parliament.

Anyway, regarding the referendum, I voted no, and was obviously glad to see the result be a no. I'm less glad that this seems to have brought division to the country that wasn't really there before (or at least wasn't apparent) - I've seen lots of my Yes-supporting friends joining groups like "We are the 45%" and so on, and indeed last Friday I saw a few folk being downright abusive and insulting towards folks who had voted no. Of course, that wasn't helped by the mindless hooligans in Glasgow on Friday night. Hopefully Westminster can agree and deliver a fair constitutional settlement for the whole country - Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, and indeed, England.

[Ameecher]

It's disappointing how democracy hasn't been respected. It's difficult to argue with the result when there was such a high turn out too.