Any Space Transport Sims?

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Solanus612
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Any Space Transport Sims?

Post by Solanus612 »

I’m very new to the TT forums, and I hope I’m posting this in the appropriate location:

I would be interested in a good science fiction transportation simulation, something where you manage planet-side shipments, sub-light transports, and/or FTL freighters. Handle cargoes via consignment or buy them outright to maximize profits (and risks!). Rent out space at local spaceports or stations to holdover products until shuttles can get them moved, or have ships capable of planetfall and orbital return on their own. Contract with escort gunships to make runs into dangerous territory.

I haven’t seen it done so far, at least as a management sim, versus games like Privateer that had you as the pilot of a gunship with cargo capacity instead. I want to be able to manage fleets of spaceships as they move cargoes, support settlements, and make “credits”. I don’t want (in this instance) to have to do all the flying for each run myself, fighting off hostile and hungry raiders.

If anyone has seen anything approaching this, I’d be glad to know. If anyone is interested in more ideas in this vein, I’d also be glad to share those as well.
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Re: Any Space Transport Sims?

Post by Redirect Left »

That is actually a neat idea, if it doesn't exist, it should!
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Re: Any Space Transport Sims?

Post by YNM »

Hmm... Space themed transport game.... Not exist as far as I know, but seems like a promising thing if it ever existed !
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Re: Any Space Transport Sims?

Post by Drury »

I'm not sure if this exists in the form that you suggest, but Star Ruler 2 might be worth checking out.
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Re: Any Space Transport Sims?

Post by Redirect Left »

YNM wrote:but seems like a promising thing if it ever existed !
Sure does, i spent an hour last night planning up a basic 'how it could work' in a google doc. If I ever get some spare time, I might have to have a play about with the Unity Engine.
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Re: Any Space Transport Sims?

Post by rbos86 »

Such a game would be a great idea! Finally space -truckin' like in the Deep Purple song.
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Re: Any Space Transport Sims?

Post by YNM »

I guess the concept starts from the IRL space-launch companies : you make launchers, you ask people for money by launching their things. As you progressed, you can extend the capability of your launcher, either creating a bigger one or creating orbital refuelling (maybe ?) and probably, you can launch your own things that the data the thing gathered can be used by public and scientist (like the near-earth-asteroid-thing foundation); or you can exceed the government by maybe making private mission earlier than the government can (say, mars direct) ! Kinda like KSP still, but you don't have to command the vessels, and either the government or yourself can open the boundaries.

Now we need the chaos factor so it's not so boring...
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Re: Any Space Transport Sims?

Post by rbos86 »

Wasn't Elite on early MSX machines a transpot game? Where you can by slaves and transport them to other solar systems and galaxy's, where you sell them again?
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Re: Any Space Transport Sims?

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YNM wrote: Now we need the chaos factor so it's not so boring...
The concept I have wrote down is start on a random planet in a randomly generated universe, and a rather basic freighter thats already falling apart at the seams. From there you can buy other space faring vessels, everything from freighters to luxery space liners for thousands of passengers at a time. To add the "chaos factor" as YNM put it, the different areas of the universe are the terroritories of different aliens who all hold you (or your homeworld) in different regard, and if they particularly don't like you, might have a few pot shots at your ship(s), and of course varying levels of friendship mean they might be happy for you to transport passengers through their lands, but if you try moving something slightly more important, like say weaponry, they won't be best pleased about it. Adds a factor of micro-management, managing your status with all the differing regions/aliens. Cargo could vary from goods, passengers, weaponry, anything thats not too far fetched, or have some far fetched things for comic relief.
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Re: Any Space Transport Sims?

Post by SquireJames »

rbos86 wrote:Wasn't Elite on early MSX machines a transpot game? Where you can by slaves and transport them to other solar systems and galaxy's, where you sell them again?
Way back on the BBC Micro my friend :) However, ELITE and her sequels were Space Trading Games, not strictly space transport. It's like the difference between Euro Truck Simulator and Transport Tycoon.
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Re: Any Space Transport Sims?

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Redirect Left wrote:
YNM wrote: Now we need the chaos factor so it's not so boring...
The concept I have wrote down is start on a random planet in a randomly generated universe, and a rather basic freighter thats already falling apart at the seams. From there you can buy other space faring vessels, everything from freighters to luxery space liners for thousands of passengers at a time. To add the "chaos factor" as YNM put it, the different areas of the universe are the terroritories of different aliens who all hold you (or your homeworld) in different regard, and if they particularly don't like you, might have a few pot shots at your ship(s), and of course varying levels of friendship mean they might be happy for you to transport passengers through their lands, but if you try moving something slightly more important, like say weaponry, they won't be best pleased about it. Adds a factor of micro-management, managing your status with all the differing regions/aliens. Cargo could vary from goods, passengers, weaponry, anything thats not too far fetched, or have some far fetched things for comic relief.
I still can't help but feel the game would be a bit too shallow with spaceships only, like TTD with only planes.

I don't really know what else could be used for interstellar transport though, like space trains would be weird.
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Re: Any Space Transport Sims?

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Solanus612 wrote: I haven’t seen it done so far, at least as a management sim, versus games like Privateer that had you as the pilot of a gunship with cargo capacity instead. I want to be able to manage fleets of spaceships as they move cargoes, support settlements, and make “credits”. I don’t want (in this instance) to have to do all the flying for each run myself, fighting off hostile and hungry raiders.
Sounds a little like Master of Orion to me. But I remember playing an old space trading simulation on Amiga 500 with my friend back in the day. However, I can’t for the life of me remember the name.

But perhaps you will find something that interests you on http://spacesimcentral.com/ssc/?
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Re: Any Space Transport Sims?

Post by YNM »

Drury wrote:I still can't help but feel the game would be a bit too shallow with spaceships only, like TTD with only planes.

I don't really know what else could be used for interstellar transport though, like space trains would be weird.
Hence why I thought by adding the elements that you can design your own things, and your own cargoes or manned missions, would add more depth... I think it's more like KSP with just Mission Control (N/A as of now), VAB & SPH (but OFC you can buy designs from elsewhere), Tracking Station, and Launch Pad. (And the outer space of course)

Mission Control would be quite much your HQ, seeing assets, finances and latest conditions / news; VAB and SPH is the place for you to make the ship (or i'd prefer rockets, so start conditions are nearer to today) to do the job; Tracking stations shows you each mission status, this include whether things are working well or not, or does your things needs resupply or not; Launch Pad are the place for you to select orders, mating them with the launcher, and launch it.
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Re: Any Space Transport Sims?

Post by Solanus612 »

VIPStephan wrote:
Solanus612 wrote: I haven’t seen it done so far, at least as a management sim, versus games like Privateer that had you as the pilot of a gunship with cargo capacity instead. I want to be able to manage fleets of spaceships as they move cargoes, support settlements, and make “credits”. I don’t want (in this instance) to have to do all the flying for each run myself, fighting off hostile and hungry raiders.
Sounds a little like Master of Orion to me. But I remember playing an old space trading simulation on Amiga 500 with my friend back in the day. However, I can’t for the life of me remember the name.

But perhaps you will find something that interests you on http://spacesimcentral.com/ssc/?
Definitely not looking for another MOO game - I have those along with GalCiv, Endless Space, etc. Those are empire builders, with only inferred trading activity. I want a game where the galaxy is pretty well set up and my company is operating in it. Because it would still be a colonial period, there would still be a large number of small systems where a Tycoon could have a big impact in helping them grow and develop.
Drury wrote:
Redirect Left wrote: I still can't help but feel the game would be a bit too shallow with spaceships only, like TTD with only planes.

I don't really know what else could be used for interstellar transport though, like space trains would be weird.
My idea is still in the gestation phases right now, but I'm thinking that you could have some variety in your transports, even in a game that's mostly about spaceships:
  • Shuttles give you the ability to move cargoes to and from orbit and around a given planet.
  • System ships can move goods around a planetary system.
  • FTL ships would probably be bigger and rarer, and would not likely waste their time with any but the largest inhabited planet(s) in a system.
  • While spaceports and space stations would often be built by the local authorities, they can also be constructed, expanded, or improved by Tycoons either at the authority's request or independently.
This is just one way of looking at a space transport or shipping simulation, and again, I'm still working through the brainstorm. Let me know what you think.
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Re: Any Space Transport Sims?

Post by Redirect Left »

yeah, my working document calls for all sorts of different ships (as really thats all you can get in space), everything from solar wind ships (something like that from Star Trek: Deep Space Nine), up to luxery space liners and down to freighters, naturally you can't put passengers in a freighter, they won't like that, and the opposite with some passenger ships, so there is some variety in there. Hard to explain really.
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Re: Any Space Transport Sims?

Post by SquireJames »

VIPStephan wrote:But I remember playing an old space trading simulation on Amiga 500 with my friend back in the day. However, I can’t for the life of me remember the name.
That sounds like it might be Frontier: Elite II. Many many happy hours I've spent zipping about the galaxy making money, with the game having absolutely no moral feedback, from narcotics and human trafficking.
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Re: Any Space Transport Sims?

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Anyone down to make a space-themed newgrf pack? new landscape, houses, industries, vehicles, infrastructure, etc.... it would be so awesome.
I'm a pretty great pixel artist but I can't code for my life. If any of you can code and would be interested in this, message me, I would be glad to provide all the graphics you want :D
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Re: Any Space Transport Sims?

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qcm wrote:Anyone down to make a space-themed newgrf pack? new landscape, houses, industries, vehicles, infrastructure, etc.... it would be so awesome.
I'm a pretty great pixel artist but I can't code for my life. If any of you can code and would be interested in this, message me, I would be glad to provide all the graphics you want :D
We had this discussion years ago. Perhaps you can revive that?
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Re: Any Space Transport Sims?

Post by Solanus612 »

I'm probably going to break this into a few parts, because I'm not certain the forum software can handle the whole thing in one lump. It's a bit of stream of consciousness to start, but I think I've covered most of the important parts:
____

The foundation of the transport fleet is the lowly Shuttle. These craft are only capable of travel from a planetary surface to orbit and back, and from point to point on a planetary surface. But they are the means by which cargoes actually get picked up or delivered.

Shuttles are based at a planet’s Spaceport. Spaceports are always initially built by the planetary authority, with a number of Slips available that have a given rate of loading and unloading cargoes, along with Hangars for the Shuttles. As a planet develops, the authority will authorize its own expansions and upgrades to the Spaceport, adding more Slips and Hangars and improving the rates for the cargo handlers.

A Tycoon can base Shuttles at a Spaceport by purchasing (leasing) the Hangar space. Shuttles can then take whatever jobs are available at that Spaceport, whether that is making pickups and deliveries around the other settlements on the planet or servicing Stations or Freighters in orbit. Shuttles can prioritize what work they will take (first or at all) based on material, intended destination, or follow-on carrier (i.e., if the Tycoon’s Freighters are waiting on the load versus another company’s). Shuttles run by the local authority or other transport companies will also take up Hangar space and compete to move local cargoes; other Tycoons’ Shuttles will not move cargoes earmarked for your Tycoon, but will move anything else they see fit.

Some of the smaller Freighters can make planetfall and land at the Spaceport directly, where they can use the public Slips at a fee, but without having to make an investment in the planet. They are limited to what’s available, meaning they may have to wait to use the Slip and then are limited by the cargo handling rate there. Tycoons can invest in the Spaceport, buying available or building new Slips for dedicated use, and making upgrades to cargo rates as they see fit. There will always be public Slips available, but Tycoons can gobble up the existing rental space and force others to build new Slips or wait in line.

Each planet can also have a Space Station (more likely a collection of stations, but simplified for gameplay), with any developed planet certainly having one. A Space Station is similar to a Spaceport, with docking Slips available from the planetary authority or purchased/built by the Tycoon. A Tycoon can also initiate the building of a new Space Station, especially around a planet without a significant surface settlement (e.g., gas giant), but can also do so if the planetary authority isn’t doing so quick enough for the Tycoon. Space Stations that are built by the Tycoon will always have some public Slips; the remaining Slips are available for the Tycoon’s use. The local authority will pay usage fees for the Space Station, and will offer to buy the Station at a later point, if they can. Other Tycoons can build additional Slips for the Station, because they’re not typically part of the main superstructure and the agreement with the local authority prevents exclusivity.

Freighters work with Spaceports and Space Stations by entering the Slips – assuming there is a Slip open; otherwise, they queue until one is – and taking on or dropping off their cargoes. (For Spaceports and Space Stations with Tycoon-owned Slips, the Tycoon can identify whether Freighters will wait for a company Slip to open or any Slip to open.) Assuming the Route was built with enough lead time, Shuttles will work to get the cargoes from the source settlement to the Spaceport/Station based on the ETA for the Freighter on the Route. Once the cargo is at the Spaceport/Station, the cargo handlers will on/offload based on their rate and once complete, the Freighter is free to go to its next stop.

Freighters that cannot make planetfall, arriving at planets without a Space Station, are in for a tougher time, because Shuttles have to deliver the cargoes directly to the Freighter. This is significantly slower overall, because the cargoes cannot be pre-positioned and the cargo handling rates are much lower than in the controlled environment of a Spaceport/Station Slip. A Freighter can improve the overall transfer rate by having its own Shuttles on board to add to the mix, at the cost of available cargo space, but for less developed planets this may be the best option in a bad situation.

Faster-than-light (FTL) capability allows a Freighter to jump from one planetary system to another, but including that equipment cuts into cargo capacity significantly. However, unless Jump Gates are available (the inclusion of Jump Gates could be shot down entirely, they could be included but be more like stable wormholes between specific systems, or they could exist as any-Gated-system-to-any-Gated-system variants), an FTL drive is the only way it’s getting there, so most larger Freighters will deal with the lost capacity.

A Route from one system to another that includes a system Freighter transferring to an FTL Freighter (a Faster-Than-Leighter? Bah doom boom tssh!) would be best handled at a Space Station, which can do a fairly quick movement between ships. Orbital ship-to-ship transfers could maybe be done, as well, but this would be slow, similar to an orbital un/load to a planet. (Spaceports/Stations are probably going to have to be used for transfers between ships, because the Route will have to have a fixed point to meet at.)
Last edited by Solanus612 on 09 Apr 2014 12:43, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Any Space Transport Sims?

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Part 2 of the mega post:
____

Cargoes would mostly likely be managed not as loose or palletized material to be handled as separate little elements, but like shipping containers are today. The entire container would be loaded onto a Shuttle for movement down the line, and wouldn’t be handled at any smaller level until the actual destination customer receives it. (We can avoid the “deadhead” return issue that current shipping companies deal with today, for gameplay simplicity.) This allows for a single Freighter (especially an FTL) to move a number of different cargoes simultaneously (without having to change out cars like a train or refit like an Open TTD aircraft). It also keeps a single source customer’s goods all together as a single consignment rather than lumped into a big pile, making tracking time and distance easier.

Regular Transport Tycoon games have used a more loose consignment system, with the only objective for the Tycoon relative to the cargo being moved being to get it to a destination as far away and as fast as they can. This avoided the issue of the supplier most likely not getting paid any more by their actual destination customer based on the distance between the two, yet the Tycoon getting paid in part on that distance. A real-world supplier would either completely specify where the cargo needs to go (probably not entirely compatible with a TT-type game) or at least identify how much he would pay based on the market where the goods are dropped off. I think the second scenario is something that could be managed here.

Most established planets will accept nearly all cargoes, with some having more saturated markets depending on the amount of existing shipping traffic in the area. In case I hadn’t mentioned it already, this idea assumes that a number of non-Tycoon companies are also servicing the various planets and systems in the game, along with several other Tycoon competitors. This allows any given consignment to be handled by multiple companies in routing it from a supplier to a destination customer, e.g., local authority Shuttle moves container to Spaceport, Tycoon’s Freighter moves it from Spaceport to space, then a jump to another system, and drops it off at their Space Station, where another local authority Shuttle takes it to the end of the line.

A consignment map is set by the supplier, showing where they’re willing to pay how much, based on market and expected cost to transit. Trying to move a cargo beyond a given distance will see diminishing returns on the pay for moving the containers. When the Tycoon identifies a material that they want to try to move, they can mark where they’re willing to move it; for example:
A planet that has a Tycoon’s Shuttles on it could have all of the available outgoing cargoes marked as local moves, able to be transported by the Shuttles from the settlements to the Spaceport/Station and back. They can also mark “all incoming cargoes” as a group, to deliver anything that arrives to the settlements. Cargoes marked to move beyond the local area (i.e., to be loaded onto a Tycoon’s Freighters) will be moved as a priority over other loads, if that option is set at the Shuttle level.

Any materials that the Tycoon wants to move beyond the Spaceport/Station can have either a price quality marked (e.g., very profitable, profitable, marginal, loss likely, loss certain) or specific systems and/or planets marked to determine where it can be delivered. If a Freighter arrives that has a Route to system “A”, but the cargoes available to pick up for a given material are earmarked for system “B” (or a group of systems that doesn't include “A”), the Freighter will not pick them up and will look for materials that it has a destination for. If a Tycoon is using a Spaceport/Station as a hub location, with Freighters bringing loads into a common point in order to consolidate all of the goods heading to a given system, the mark put onto the planet could be set to “drop off” or “consolidate” instead of the default “deliver”.

Once the consignment containers have been loaded by the supplier and made available, the Tycoon’s ships can start moving them. Routes are handled at their most basic like any TT-type game, with the Tycoon selecting a Freighter and determining the planets that they will travel to. For each location, the Tycoon will determine where the Freighter will collect the cargo (Spaceport, Space Station, or orbital rendezvous) and what they’ll try to pick up. Whatever planets are on the Route will be matched up to the locations selected for each consignment, including consolidation points, and those cargoes can be loaded. The Route can specify a full load, an insistence on a single-product or mixed load, a preference for older or newer cargoes, or even a need to keep half the hold empty, to be available for a later stop.

When the Freighter arrives at its next stop, a check is run against the cargoes in the hold before looking those at the Spaceport/Station. Any cargoes that meet the criteria for delivery or “drop off” will be removed and made available for further movement (e.g., local authority or Tycoon Shuttles deliver to settlements). Afterward, available outbound cargoes will be loaded into open spots in the hold, with whatever instructions for that location followed as well.

Routes for Shuttles at a Spaceport are different, with a single Routing table showing all of the Shuttles, what activities each will participate in (settlement to settlement, settlement to Spaceport, Spaceport to orbit/Space Station), and how each will prioritize their Tycoon’s shipments (low priority, high priority, only priority; locals help Tycoon’s loads or company Shuttles only).
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