Windows 10 Discussion

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Re: Windows 10 Discussion

Post by Taschi »

Yes, how dare Microsoft develop an operating system that requires a hardware extension which has been in most new computers for half a decade at this point. What'll they do next, drop support for the Pentium III? /s
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Re: Windows 10 Discussion

Post by Railwaymodeler »

My old PC finally died earlier this year (Rest in peace, that old thing gave me many years of faithful service. Built it back in 2014.) and since I got out of IT many years ago to focus on what's really important in life (Trains) and to follow my heart and make a career out of restoring old model trains, I decided to buy a new PC. Went through Milwaukee PC, bought something they had prebuilt. Not the fanciest machine around, but it came with WIndows 10 and a quad core processor. 10 was a bit of a learning curve. The interface took some getting used to, but then, I said the exact same thing when I upgraded from Win98 to XP, and again when I got Windows 7. So, nothing new really. A new product always has a bit of a learning curve to it. You get so used to doing things a certain way.

I had heard that 10 came with a lot of ads. From what the guy at the shop I bought my PC told me, they did disable some stuff that was used to deliver ads to the desktop and he did tell me that the old Windows games like Solitaire is now ad supported. Not a problem for me. I told him about my background in IT, we got to talking, he was telling me that he's seen people come in, typically older people, who got WIndows 10, downloaded a "Free" game they saw in a Microsoft ad, the free game also shows ads, those ads might be more dubious than the ones MS shows, and before they know it their PC is chock full of malware and spyware. Not MS's fault directly, but most people don't grasp the web of agreements. Microsoft advertises product A. Product A advertises product B. Product B comes with optional malware or bloatware. People blame the top of the chain. Microsoft.

But regardless, I am overall pleased with 10. It works reliably for me, it supports old games about as well as 7 did, at least in my experience. It does what I need it to do and in the end that is what matters.

Also smooth framerates in Trainz 12 and larger open TDD maps without lag are nice to have with a new PC, so there's that too.
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Re: Windows 10 Discussion

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ChillCore wrote: 31 Jul 2021 14:47 How can you be fine with being tracked all the time and having all your stuffs controlled by companies you don't even know all that well? There is nothing to gain only to lose
If I have actually lost anything that was of value, then I'm wholly ignorant of it. If something of mine is being controlled by another company, I have no clue what it is. I'm perfectly aware that some things I am doing might be tracked and that a company, somewhere, has a scheme to monetize that and profit. It would be nice if it was made clear to me just what exactly what was, and it would be nicer if I received a portion of that profit in compensation.

But, as it is right now, whatever it is they're tracking, analyzing, scraping together into spreadsheets and bins of bits for an AI to sort through, I don't think it's anything that I genuinely feel a loss over. In return, Windows 10 has been a very nice OS that I've had absolutely ZERO problems running on a wide variety of hardware, and I didn't have to pay a penny for it. And because so many people adopted Windows 10, Microsoft was able to do something incredible for the world. It created a platform where it could shut down hackers and scammers that were robbing people and destroying their lives, their businesses, and creating chaos. If they get some analytical data in exchange for that, shoot, take it, take it all. What more can I do to create a more stable Internet? After getting all of my extended families' computers upgraded to Windows 10, I've had ZERO calls for further tech support. No more zombie PCs, no more malware infestations, no more lost data. Everything just works, it works like they expect it to work, everything they actually want to run runs on it, and that's it. Windows 10 is absolutely boring and I couldn't be happier to be a retired techie.
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Re: Windows 10 Discussion

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ChillCore wrote: 31 Jul 2021 14:47 How can you be fine with being tracked all the time and having all your stuffs controlled by companies you don't even know all that well? There is nothing to gain only to lose ...
Whether you like it or not, this is the future. Star Trek style sensors that are always aware of where everyone is at any given point. We're not quite there yet though.

I learnt to be OK with it long ago, it'll happen, we can't stop it. Do you know why we have 'opt out' options? It is still financially viable to give people those options. Just wait until enough people do it there is no money or interest to be made in offering the option, then enjoy it just happening. It is a slippery road, but we'll have to find a way to be OK with it, as it is the future.
I find it similar to the black box insurance I use for my car. At first I was super paranoid and being overly cautious with driving (possibly to a dangerous extent I was that stuck on being exact on road laws, it sometimes paused the flow of traffic). AS time went by, I learn to just accept its there, whatever, be yourself, just do you.

The ultimate point is also, there is not much to gain from tracking most people anyway. Despite what people think, Bill Gates or whomever you may think is getting all this data, they probably have no interest in your eating habits, or what you look at on your computer. At least, not more than a passing casual thing to help improve things down the line.
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Re: Windows 10 Discussion

Post by Taschi »

I am not okay with Microsoft tracking all my activity, that is why I have opted out of pretty much all of the privacy options the system has. You... do know you can do that, do you?
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Re: Windows 10 Discussion

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Taschi wrote: 01 Aug 2021 16:44 I am not okay with Microsoft tracking all my activity, that is why I have opted out of pretty much all of the privacy options the system has. You... do know you can do that, do you?
If you are talking to me, then yes I do know that, and I have left it turned on. There is no evidence to suggest any of it is personal or used in bad faith, and I have kept it on for the sake of others. As I stated in my post, as soon as enough people click no that it stops being effective or bringing in the revenue, they'll just remove those options anyway. If you don't like it, then in the words of Command & Conquer, perhaps go to Space, where Capitalism has not taken hold yet.
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Re: Windows 10 Discussion

Post by SkeedR »

Taschi wrote: 01 Aug 2021 16:44 I am not okay with Microsoft tracking all my activity, that is why I have opted out of pretty much all of the privacy options the system has. You... do know you can do that, do you?
Unfortunately, said privacy options still leave a lot of data to be phoned home. The argument that you have nothing to hide is all well and good, but what about the people in the world that need real, functioning, privacy to be able to do their jobs, aka journalists. Or whistle-blowers who need to be able to confidentially report something? The reality is that this "data industry" is hostile to many areas of society that help stop the minority in power from becoming ever more powerful.

The west it seems to me, is in decline to oligarchy, if we're not already there.

As for Windows 11,
Taschi wrote: 31 Jul 2021 15:24 Yes, how dare Microsoft develop an operating system that requires a hardware extension which has been in most new computers for half a decade at this point. What'll they do next, drop support for the Pentium III? /s
The requirement is actually not in a lot of devices likely to still be in use, specifically TPM 2.0.
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Re: Windows 10 Discussion

Post by Taschi »

SkeedR wrote: 05 Aug 2021 18:21 The requirement is actually not in a lot of devices likely to still be in use, specifically TPM 2.0.
Specifically TPM 2.0 has been on the market for several years. If your machine is so ancient it doesn't support it, just don't use Windows 11.

Also, I doubt any whistleblower will have their cover blown because Microsoft collects data on which hardware they use, how many internal errors their OS has and what they've bought on the Windows Store.
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Re: Windows 10 Discussion

Post by Redirect Left »

Taschi wrote: 05 Aug 2021 18:59 Specifically TPM 2.0 has been on the market for several years. If your machine is so ancient it doesn't support it, just don't use Windows 11.
TPM2 wasn't in mainstream processors until relatively recently. Certainly not old enough to claim any of them as 'ancient'.
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Re: Windows 10 Discussion

Post by orudge »

TPM2 isn’t the problem I have, but that my (not that old, IMO) CPU isn’t on Microsoft’s ‘approved list’. It’s maybe 5 years old or so now, but is perfectly decent for what I need and it runs Windows 10 well.

For many people these days, a Linux system with Wine (or CrossOver) would probably work well - for gamers, Steam Proton (based on Wine) is meant to work quite well too.
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Re: Windows 10 Discussion

Post by Taschi »

orudge wrote: 08 Aug 2021 20:32 TPM2 isn’t the problem I have, but that my (not that old, IMO) CPU isn’t on Microsoft’s ‘approved list’. It’s maybe 5 years old or so now, but is perfectly decent for what I need and it runs Windows 10 well.
On that front, Microsoft has already announced that they'll look into supporting somewhat older CPUs.

But it's not like everybody is going to upgrade to Windows 11 right away anyway, so I assume you'd still be fine running Windows 10 for a couple of years more - and as far as I'm aware, Microsoft has not indicated that they plan to drop support for Windows 10 any time soon.
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Re: Windows 10 Discussion

Post by SkeedR »

Taschi wrote: 08 Aug 2021 20:55
orudge wrote: 08 Aug 2021 20:32 TPM2 isn’t the problem I have, but that my (not that old, IMO) CPU isn’t on Microsoft’s ‘approved list’. It’s maybe 5 years old or so now, but is perfectly decent for what I need and it runs Windows 10 well.
On that front, Microsoft has already announced that they'll look into supporting somewhat older CPUs.

But it's not like everybody is going to upgrade to Windows 11 right away anyway, so I assume you'd still be fine running Windows 10 for a couple of years more - and as far as I'm aware, Microsoft has not indicated that they plan to drop support for Windows 10 any time soon.
This page linked below makes it a bit unclear, but Windows 10 Home and Pro will likely continue to see security updates until October 14th 2025. But I suspect only if you're on whatever happens to be the latest version of Windows 10...
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecy ... me-and-pro
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Re: Windows 10 Discussion

Post by Born Acorn »

I've still not ran into any Win 11 problems on the Dev Channel and the first Beta is out now. It seems that I'm one of the ones to have been chosen to have the "Chat Now" Teams integration as well as the new button appeared. It's the full version of Teams that I'm used to from work, but the taskbar item is a new little thing for chatting, it has brought over all my old Skype contacts too. I have no reason to use it but it seems like a nice lightweight chat client.
Redirect Left wrote: 01 Aug 2021 16:58]If you are talking to me, then yes I do know that, and I have left it turned on. There is no evidence to suggest any of it is personal or used in bad faith, and I have kept it on for the sake of others.
It's important to note any data collected will need to be handled compliant with GDPR and all local implementations (the UK's DPA2018) - the fines a large company like Microsoft would receive are insane, up to 4% of annual turnover (not profit). They're better just slinging 365 and GamePass subscriptions than selling data to analytics firms, at least for EU and UK subjects.

US and rest of world Citizens may not have that luxury however.
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Re: Windows 10 Discussion

Post by kamnet »

I don't see any value in Microsoft selling that data to third parties. I doubt it would be enough to compensate the harm to their reputation. With Microsoft now not making as much money off of Windows, it needs all the income it can get from subscription-based services and enterprise-level support.
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Re: Windows 10 Discussion

Post by Tomplus »

When will the Windows 11 thread start? :)
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Re: Windows 10 Discussion

Post by Born Acorn »

So it's been out for a couple of weeks and so I decided to update my main PC to the release channel. The most annoying part of this was finding the TPM setting in BIOS as my desktop PC doesn't have a TPM chip, only a TPM enabled CPU - in the settings it was some vague security related name but didn't come under TPM.

I wonder how many people will think they don't have TPM capabilities as a result of this?
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Re: Windows 10 Discussion

Post by Redirect Left »

Born Acorn wrote: 18 Oct 2021 09:09 I wonder how many people will think they don't have TPM capabilities as a result of this?
Indeed! On my Gigabyte motherboard with a TPM compatible i7-8700, it was a setting under Peripherals called 'Intel Platform Trust Technology (PTT)', although obviously it won't be called that on an AMD motherboard, I am guessing...
I have not updated to Win11, I've just done the stuff needed to make the computer Win11 ready, i also had to convert my boot drive from the old Master Boot Record (MBR) format to GUID Partition Table (GPT), as apparently Secure Boot is unavailable for MBR drives. However, it now ticks all the Win11 ready boxes, for whenever I decide to brave that. I may wait another 4-6 month so any critical oddities will (I hope...) be resolve by then.
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Re: Windows 10 Discussion

Post by SkeedR »

While I may update to Windows 11 in 6 months once the major issues have probably been ironed out, I'm also seriously considering moving entirely to Linux... I've been toying around with Raspberry Pi's rather a lot lately, and have now installed Debian on an old desktop to run as a NAS.

I'm getting to grips with it enough now that I might just be comfortable enough to make the change...
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Re: Windows 10 Discussion

Post by Taschi »

SkeedR wrote: 20 Oct 2021 16:06 While I may update to Windows 11 in 6 months once the major issues have probably been ironed out, I'm also seriously considering moving entirely to Linux... I've been toying around with Raspberry Pi's rather a lot lately, and have now installed Debian on an old desktop to run as a NAS.

I'm getting to grips with it enough now that I might just be comfortable enough to make the change...
If you don't need any Windows-specific software, Linux is reasonably beginner-friendly these days so sure, go for it. Though I probably wouldn't recommend Debian specifically to a newcomer.
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Re: Windows 10 Discussion

Post by SkeedR »

Taschi wrote: 20 Oct 2021 16:34
SkeedR wrote: 20 Oct 2021 16:06 While I may update to Windows 11 in 6 months once the major issues have probably been ironed out, I'm also seriously considering moving entirely to Linux... I've been toying around with Raspberry Pi's rather a lot lately, and have now installed Debian on an old desktop to run as a NAS.

I'm getting to grips with it enough now that I might just be comfortable enough to make the change...
If you don't need any Windows-specific software, Linux is reasonably beginner-friendly these days so sure, go for it. Though I probably wouldn't recommend Debian specifically to a newcomer.
Just as well I'm not much of a new-comer these days! And I work in the IT industry too, so if I don't know it, I'll learn it.
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