Sprite Limits (Other)

[eis_os]

It would be good to reduce the action5 grm based sprites to only really necessary stuff, because this 11k limit can't be changed, we have to fit these sprites into an TTD addressable space...

[SAC]

Hmm, tried that too, but to no avail! I'm wondering if it could be a patch setting of mine perhaps, because even if I load the station sets I'm using, I should be well below the maximum limits, so all in all there shouldn't be a problem.

I do not understand this!

Hi SAC,
I made and attached a newgrf.cfg from your debug file.
Open the file in your Notepad and follow the instructions at the top of the file.

Thanks Wally! Will check this tomorrow! To tired right now, and will go to bed and watch some bad movie or something...



Edit to add 1///

Well, what I didn't try when checking my problems was to start a completely new game without changing the settings, nor the .grf's I'm using. When doing so it turns out that everything works as it should. All ECS.grf's can be loaded without no yellow flags indicating conflicts or other issues. The only thing would be that I can't load MB's NewCargo, (the one .grf containing the Brewery), along with the ECS.grf's! The same goes for that "OilFiredPowerStation.grf", but I assume these two ones aren't needed for stuff to work properly, or are they?

Anyways, looking at this I assume something is wrong with my current game. It's safe to say that I've been playing that map for a couple of years as I, in opposite of most others, stick to one map and heavily changes it whenever I get "bored"... But since I'm able to load an entire new game without any problems whatsoever, I believe there's a "bug" somewhere with that map! The question is where? I'm not really in the mood to start making a completely new map just because I want to use the ECS.grf's, as the one I currently play is perfect for my game play. The next map will be an OTTD one, but that won't happen until I see "CustomBridgeheads" included...

Or could it possibly be that some - or most - ECS.grf's can't be loaded properly unless a new game is started? I hope not!

Edit to add 2///

Did yet another test by removing ALL industries on the map to see if it was possible to use the ECS properly, but no, it didn't work either. It seems that all ECS.grf's, except Town, Basic, and Machinery, can only be loaded if it's a new game! Not an existing one! So apparently I'm forced to create a new game which is crap as it'll take valuable time from my drawings... And believe me, I never start a random game, I always landscape my new maps to perfection!

[eis_os]

You can't change industry vectors in a running game...

Status report:
+ Finished the drawing routines for (Sorted & Ground) Sprites, now I need to create the fragments to replace the already patched old ones. (I still try to make the changes so we can disable them)

Still a lot to do...
- New way of restoring and overwriting sprites
- Sprite Sorting routines
- Vehicle Bounding Box Functions
- Mouse Cursor routines
- Trying to compile, fix bugs

[wallyweb]

...
Edit to add 1/// ...
Edit to add 2/// ...

Hi SAC ... ok ... Another suggestion.
1. In your newgrf.cfg, dissable all grf's with a #, except for ttdbase of course
2. Load up your favourite map, either in a game or in the scenario editor. (Note that the scenario editor is the preferred location)
3. Do a flag cheat with Cht: PurgeIndustries
4. Save your map either as a game or as a scenario
5. Exit to Windows and remove the #'s from the grf's in your newgrf.cfg
6. Retry your game.

Here is the explanation:
http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php ... Industries

[michael blunck]

[PurgeIndustries]

Here is the explanation:
http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php ... Industries

That´s somewhat scarce. Let me add the information Wally didn´t mention possibly by being über-polite today:

Here is the explanation:
http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php ... Industries
PurgeIndustries is probably useful in the scenario editor only. It is possible to use it in a running game, but it can cause a great chaos in your company when some industries vanish and others start behaving differently. The damage is usually so great that you may as well start a new game from scratch.

HTH
regards
Michael

[michael blunck]

Action 1: 11k Sprites per individual GRF. [...] This means that Action1 sprites aren't feature based any more but they are GRF local.

The more I think about it the more I like it. Good work, Oskar. Hopefully this gets finished some day. All the best. (Cookies will be sent by Wally, as usual. )

regards
Michael

[wallyweb]

PurgeIndustries is probably useful in the scenario editor only. It is possible to use it in a running game, but it can cause a great chaos in your company when some industries vanish and others start behaving differently. The damage is usually so great that you may as well start a new game from scratch.

Hence my recommendation to do it in the scenario editor.
Don't let Michael discourage you.
There is a workaround if you are working on an existing game where you have already built industries.
1. Before disabling your industries in your newgrf.cfg, go into your saved game.
2. Visit each industry (hopefully you don't have too many, but then "no pain = no gain" )
and destroy it and replace it with a marker such as a sign. [Note that you may have to do a cht: money [amount] to be able to afford this]
3. Once all industries have been replaced by signs, follow the instructions in my previous post.
4. After following the previous instructions and you are back into the game with the grf's all re-enabled, visit each sign and rebuild your industries with the set of your choice. [Note that you will probably have to do more sign cheats for money, but this is actually very realistic. Just think of it as government bail-outs. I hear that Washington is getting very good at this lately. ]

(Cookies will be sent by Wally, as usual. )

Michael, you do know that you could be in the running for some of these if you got your revisions done and your web site back up, don't you?

[michael blunck]

Michael, you do know that you could be in the running for some of these if you got your revisions done and your web site back up, don't you?

Wally, you do know that I don´t go for cookies, but for the more liquid stuff, don't you? Especially that one which usually doesn´t get pressed in the upper part of North America?

regards
Michael

[wallyweb]

Michael, you do know that you could be in the running for some of these if you got your revisions done and your web site back up, don't you?

Wally, you do know that I don´t go for cookies, but for the more liquid stuff, don't you? Especially that one which usually doesn´t get pressed in the upper part of North America?

regards
Michael

Maple syrup? It could be arranged.

[SAC]

Well, just to let all of you know that I've managed to install all of the ECS vectors in my currently running game, a game that has been running for quite some years now - and I'm not speaking game years here...

And the solution; the "Cht: PurgeIndustries"! Thanks for pointing me to this one. I had no idea industry ID's - or houses for that matter - could still occupy an ID-list even after being removed from the newgrf.list! So again, a BIG thank you to all that has helped me with this, and especially Wally! I appreciate it a lot! A surprise is heading your way!

Of course I didn't want to take any risks, especially not after reading about that "PurgeIndustry" stuff, so obviously I figured that "better safe than sorry", and deleted they were - ALL my industries everywhere! And no signs added! Those of you who have been following my INFRA-work knows all too well that my map has been a major construction site ever since I finished developing it in the Scenario Editor... I need to relocate all my industries anyways after getting all these "new" industries... I'm sure all the local councilmen - and women - will be very pleased - as usual - to find my bulldozers working around the clock again, destroying and wrecking about...

I'm sure this was known by others before, but it's not possible to use MB's NewCargo along with ECS, but I'm known to "mix and match"... ...so it'll find its way into my game somehow, the graphics I mean... The same goes for the OilFiredPowerStation, (whoever made that one), which I'm using for my BusDepot, but that doesn't really matter as I plan to make it modular instead!

The entire thing with Cht: PurgeIndustries" has made me wonder if the same issues with houses and industries also applies to stations. The reason be is that Wally seems to be able to load the CanadianStation Set, (with ALL those thousands of sprites), along with IndustryRenewal, while I'm only able to load the DutchStation Set along with my "Test Files", each of them providing 108 sprites, in total for the latter approximately 500 sprites! What was the station sprite limit again?

[wallyweb]

The entire thing with Cht: PurgeIndustries" has made me wonder if the same issues with houses and industries also applies to stations. The reason be is that Wally seems to be able to load the CanadianStation Set, (with ALL those thousands of sprites), along with IndustryRenewal, while I'm only able to load the DutchStation Set along with my "Test Files", each of them providing 108 sprites, in total for the latter approximately 500 sprites! What was the station sprite limit again?

Currently we have:
Trains: 11483
Road Vehicles: 11483
Ships: 8724
Planes: 8724
Houses: 8724
Others: 11483
"Others" includes industries, stations, newobjects and anything else not listed in the first five.
Yes, I can load ECS Vectors, Canadian Stations, Industry Renewal, somebody's stolen trees and a couple of other small items but virtually nothing else. Hence my suggestion for some sort of reorganization, especially in view of your forthcoming objects. Thankfully eis_os (Oskar) has taken it upon himself to try and develop a fix, but without doubt this will take a while.

[SAC]

Currently we have:
Trains: 11483
Road Vehicles: 11483
Ships: 8724
Planes: 8724
Houses: 8724
Others: 11483
"Others" includes industries, stations, newobjects and anything else not listed in the first five.
Yes, I can load ECS Vectors, Canadian Stations, Industry Renewal, somebody's stolen trees and a couple of other small items but virtually nothing else. Hence my suggestion for some sort of reorganization, especially in view of your forthcoming objects. Thankfully eis_os (Oskar) has taken it upon himself to try and develop a fix, but without doubt this will take a while.

Yes, but I assume you cannot insert like 11000 station sprites by ignoring to include anything else. Those 11483 surely have restrictions as to what kind of sprite we're talking about here, right? I mean, you can only insert a limited number of station sprites amongst those 11483, and the same for industries, and so on?

Just noticed that I'm still using about 4200 sprites for the "Other" category with all the ECS vectors included! And my new objects take up about 37 of them so far!

[athanasios]

Maple syrup?

Tasteless stuff. Kitul rules!

[wallyweb]

Yes, but I assume you cannot insert like 11000 station sprites by ignoring to include anything else. Those 11483 surely have restrictions as to what kind of sprite we're talking about here, right? I mean, you can only insert a limited number of station sprites amongst those 11483, and the same for industries, and so on?

The only limit that I am aware of is the 11483 maximum.

Just noticed that I'm still using about 4200 sprites for the "Other" category with all the ECS vectors included! And my new objects take up about 37 of them so far!

So you should have room for 7283 other sprites, possibly stations if you wish.

[SAC]

So you should have room for 7283 other sprites, possibly stations if you wish.

Well, one would think so but that's not the case! It doesn't matter whether or not I check this in an existing game or a completely new one, I still end up with the following numbers;

Sprites, (Other), in usage, total; 4971

• ¤ __4 sprites OpenTTD Waypoints
  ¤ 239 sprites Industrial Station Set v.0.98
  ¤ _47 sprites City Stations
  ¤ 138 sprites Container Freight Stations & Harbor
  
  ¤ _16 sprites New Stations (ALL)
  ¤ 266 sprites Dutch Station Set
  ¤ __6 sprites Red*Star Docks and Locks
  ¤ _46 sprites Fake Airport v.2
  
  ¤ 102 sprites INFRAStat
  ¤ 108 sprites Blank Tiles 1
  ¤ 108 sprites Blank Tiles 2
  
  In total; 1080

Please note that "Red*Star Docks and Locks" includes a dock, (6 sprites), and locks, (24 sprites). I assume only the "docks" adds up to the actual station sprites! With all these .grf's loaded I can only add one more, for instance "Blank Tiles 3" which according to the New Graphics Status list in game adds another 36 sprites - although only 4 objects are present in the actual station list, (no animations included in any of the Blank Tiles.grf's)!

I haven't checked how many sprites for the "Other" category are used up by the ECS vectors. I'm using ALL vectors by the way! Anyways, something around 1100 sprites for stations seems to be maximum in a game. At least in my game with my patch settings - which again is puzzling me knowing that Wally can use a station set that includes more than 5000 sprites! What IS wrong here? Again, it doesn't matter if I use a currently running game or a new generated one, the limit in my game stays the same!

Edit to add///

Did some more tests and I've come to the conclusion that my problems - or issues - are within the "BlankTiles.grf's"! I can safely insert the Canadian Station Set - or any other for that matter - as long as I deactivate 1 or two of those 3 "BlankTiles.grf's"! However, using all 3 of them at the same time without anything else that raises the "other" sprite category highly isn't possible - nor can I add even the tiniest station set if having Blank Tiles 1 and 2 loaded - both of them providing 108 unique sprites, in total 216! Odd, I know!

Aegir!!!! You've got some splaining to do...

[michael blunck]

[...] Did some more tests and I've come to the conclusion that my problems - or issues - are within the "BlankTiles.grf's"!

Almost all mysterious problems come from improperly coded .grfs.

regards
Michael

[SAC]

[...] Did some more tests and I've come to the conclusion that my problems - or issues - are within the "BlankTiles.grf's"!

Almost all mysterious problems come from improperly coded .grfs.

regards
Michael

Absolutely!