I'm leaving TTDPatch

[athanasios]

rather than to begin work for the rival project.

OpenTTD is not a rival project. It is the child of TTDPatch.

I will not comment more on your post Michael. Seems emotions rule there. Life is moving on. I expect from you to show the same love for OpenTTD like the one you have for TTDPatch.

Just this: We all value your DBSet and your graphics style. You can offer a lot in OpenTTD now that 32 bit graphics are possible. Just skinning a 3D model doesn't make nice graphics. It needs an artists' retouch. It is at our hands not to have another 'usual 32-bit rendered graphics shiny computer game'.

athanasios

[Raichase]

rather than to begin work for the rival project.

OpenTTD is not a rival project. It is the child of TTDPatch.

I expect from you to show the same love for OpenTTD like the one you have for TTDPatch.

Please don't post such inflammatory things here.

Michael has clearly stated his reasoning for staying with TTDPatch, there's no need to try and start fights.

[Hyronymus]

As Raichase said, noone can force someone else to switch to a different opinion. If you really think you can then you have false expectations or aren't used to take "No" for an answer.

[Csaboka]

And so I just want to say thank you for all the coaching, all the lending of ears/eyes/braincells and all the other help you've provided to me and everyone else in the community. I do know that there were things I could not have done if you weren't up (when you should've been sound asleep) helping me.

Hehe, you're welcome

Patchdevs can still count on me for such things, especially if it's about explaining my code. I know the worst part of someone leaving is that no one else will want to touch the code written by the person who left because it's hard to understand how it works. I've tried commenting my code to counter that, and adding generic "how it works" overwiev comments at the beginning of files I've written, but I'm sure there are still things that remain cryptic.

[belugas]

Csaba, I was worried when I first heard your plans, only because I expected your reputation in TTDPatch would be degraded when 'translated' to OTTD.

Maybe something worth mentionning, regarding the futur of Csaboka among us: I offered him commit rights. Meaning a full OTTD dev. But to my surprise, both the rest of the devs AND Csaboka refused the idea. It was for a pretty good reason, tough : Csaboka still has to get accustomed to our ways. But I doubt it will take long before he actually does

[Axlrose]

Bummer...

If the old memory serves me correctly, Josef subtly stated long ago that once the next beta was released, he was going to "retire" from creating future patches. Thus the beta patch that is currently available was the last patch - this was how I envisioned it. Whether someone else was to pick-up the task of being the Patch Master per se was never really discussed, at least publicly. Add that he has been involved with the patch before web pages were a popular means of communication - back in the Usenet (user group) days, perhaps the gentleman has tired of the game and patch and wishes to pursue other activities.

Personally, I have thought about diving into the OTTD arena and seeing what is being offered. But I seem to have grown tired of the game genre myself. My gaming sessions are shorter and shorter since I already know that doing this will result in that. While I am not a coder, I know many of the ideas I have would not be possible and thus remain quiet about them (though maybe possible with OTTD). And while I have attempted a building or two in my past, to be committed enough to create whole sets is not in my plans for various reasons. Thus I can understand quite well why people move away from the patch. When fun becomes work, then it is time for a change.

But as others have stated, the patch has made the Transport Tycoon Deluxe game live long beyond its expected lifespan. Without the patch and its legion of coders, the game would have been but another relic of the past. While it still has its moments today (screen shots), short of something revolutionary, perhaps it is reaching it finally bows due to technological reasons.

The patch is dead - long live the patch?

[Dave]

What subtle hint?

[Raichase]

What subtle hint?

To which post are you referring, I'm confused? I do remember Josef saying he would stand down, or at least pull back from patch development after the next release, but obviously real life got in the way.

[Dave]

Oh. He did? I don't recall.

[athanasios]

rather than to begin work for the rival project.

OpenTTD is not a rival project. It is the child of TTDPatch.

I expect from you to show the same love for OpenTTD like the one you have for TTDPatch.

Please don't post such inflammatory things here.

Do you adopt the statement that "OpenTTD is a rival to TTDPatch"? I simply stated what is the truth to calm the spirits, not to argue with Michael. I like both TTDPatch and OpenTTD and respect the people, like Michael, who devoted their precious free time for both projects. Reading further in my post is ample proof.

Michael has clearly stated his reasoning for staying with TTDPatch, there's no need to try and start fights.

As Raichase said, noone can force someone else to switch to a different opinion. If you really think you can then you have false expectations or aren't used to take "No" for an answer.

Did I state that I will fight with Michael if he doesn't do anything for OpenTTD? It is my expectation, and probably of many others, who use his DBset in OpenTTD (check OpenTTD forums for proof), that he will do. I am not arguing with him to. If word "expect" does not seem appropriate then consider I mean "wish". Michael's great work and experience are a big capital.

Michael you are always welcome to assist in OpenTTD. Please consider this at a later time, when emotions settle down. If you are never willing to, I respect your decision.

athanasios

[Raichase]

Feel free to disagree, but the makes it sound like you're wasting your time with us.

I for one don't appreciate your tone.

[Born Acorn]

Oh. He did? I don't recall.

Well. To be fair, it was said a long time ago.

[Wile E. Coyote]

I can't believe I missed this topic till today...

What to say? Patch lose one of its great contributors, and OTTD got one great contributor. Don't want to say which is better, but of course Patch will miss you...

Thanx to your previous work on Patch! And thanx for help you gave me online some time ago... Have fun and enjoy with OTTD coding!

[eis_os]

Hello Csaba,

to bad the was no notice on the internal dev list.
Considering you have left TTDPatch, Marcin too and Josef, I haven't seen a life signal from him since ages, I don't think I will come back too. (But it's a result of other reasons too)
And yes your Graph prove what I thought already since quite a time.

Your reasons why you choose OTTD are quite identical to mine, but there is one well known reason I won't and I can't simple ignore. Why can't someone magical resolve the fact so I can work on OTTD too? *

About the development style, I think the switching to svn actually was a key point for a rise of development time spent on TTDPatch, because the ideas got more easy into the code. And you got faster and easier feedback.

Without svn I don't think the last stuff would have been made. One key problem is the interdependencies between Patch features that bite back more and more. As more parts on TTD are patched 3 or 5 times the more problems you get. However our way of self contained code worked quite well for the project and the way of TTDPatch works. If the challenge is to make your code work with the other code it won't be any fun. I think the main point on being a Patchdev is and was the challenge to work in the concept of TTD. (And to make it optional)

The most time on last commits was to get all stuff work together without breaking stuff.

I wish you a lot of fun and new ideas with OpenTTD.


----

* It's not that I didn't tried it myself.

[Csaboka]

to bad the was no notice on the internal dev list.

Oops, sorry about that. The devel list has been so silent recently that I haven't even thought about it when creating the topic. I guess I could have made a graph about the mails coming to ttdpatch-devel per month, too, but that would have looked more depressing. (And the amount of discussion about some code isn't proportional to the work on the code, either, so it would have been a false indicator.)

Why can't someone magical resolve the fact so I can work on OTTD too?

All we need is someone winning the Lottery and buying off TTD from Atari. Given that the game is old, we could even get a discount

[kyanit]

Hi Csaboka.

When you announce your dicision, I decided to try openTTD. And - I am very surprised where it is now. So, now I play openTTD.

Please, make as soon as possible working PBS

[steelixb]

Besides their differences... I find great things in both TTDP and OTTD... but having played OTTD recently (with ChrisIn patch), I've grown to like OTTD more. The one thing it lacks that I find it hard to like about OTTD is the lack of more advanced signalling, like PBS, and programmable signals.

[Dave]

As I pointed out, I won't abandon the patch until such time as Open fully incorporates all of the Patch's features.

If Open doesn't want to do that, then I'm quite happy sticking with Patch.

For sure two important things are PBS and JGR's amazing signals.

[athanasios]

PBS: I must admit this is a thorn in the flesh.

[Comeng 523M]

I am sad Csaboka is leaving, this does sound like TTDPatch is on it's way out. I tried OTTD a few months back and was unhappy with it. I will continue to play Patch until OTTD supports all newGRF. I can't play without SAC's "stolen" trees.

Maybe Csaboka can find a way to fully implement newGRF into OTTD, that would make me very happy.