Path-based signalling preview and test version

[KaCzach]

Can you explain in more detail what's wrong, and also post the savegame together with ttdpatch.cfg and newgrfw.cfg?

Under a48 when both tracks at the station were occupied, the third train waited at the presignal. Under a49 it doesn't.

Here's a screenshot of the same situation under a48, and the savegame.

[AndersI]

Under a48 when both tracks at the station were occupied, the third train waited at the presignal. Under a49 it doesn't.

I see the same in my current game. Even if all platforms are taken by a train, a newly arriving one will pass the presignal and go to the rightmost platform. This is a new problem wich wasn't there in A48.

[SHADOW-XIII]

Here's a screenshot of the same situation under a48, and the savegame.

try without depot

however I have same problem (without depot) it's like PBS no longer works properly with presignals ... if there is PBS-presignal then train always enter crossing, even if all lights ahead are red

[gkirilov]

The case with me:
NO pbs.

Code: Select all

 pre-signal(entry) -> pre-signal(combo) -> depot -> 3 pre-signal(exit)(all red) -> 3 station tracks
                    |-> pre-signal(combo) -> depot -> 3 pre-signal(exit)(1 or more green) -> 3 station tracks

If you have a depot between a pre-signal(combo) and the exit pre-signals(which all are red) and the train is heading to the depot it will ignore the red on the exits and go to the depot.
It's a huge problem if you have a lot of trains.


p.s. how can i make .png screenshot

[DaleStan]

p.s. how can i make .png screenshot

You open the PCX with $IMAGE_EDITOR_OF_CHOICE, and save it as PNG. I use The GIMP (windows installers here)
EDIT: apparently "www.gimp.org" defaults to mailto: protocol.

[gkirilov]

You open the PCX with $IMAGE_EDITOR_OF_CHOICE

too much linux ???

p.s. will there be an option to save a jpeg/png ingame (like OTTD)

[Patchman]

p.s. will there be an option to save a jpeg/png ingame (like OTTD)

If you write it
[/ot]

[Rob]

It seems the Alpha 49 PBS doesn't look underneath breidges anymore.

A chrash will occur on the 23 jan 2970 when the graintrain on the right starts to move.
The goods train on the lower left thinks the tracks are clear and it reserves a path, crashing into the graintrain.

The signal pointed out by the cursor is a combined signal.
Changing that into an exit signal the goods train won't start to move immediatly, but it will still create a path and move to soon. The crash will still occur.

[nicfer]

I tried your savegame and I get 3 crashes instead of 1. One is that you say, and the other two are of enemy trains exiting from my depots , that I posted anteriorly.

[Rob]

I tried your savegame and I get 3 crashes instead of 1. One is that you say, and the other two are of enemy trains exiting from my depots , that I posted anteriorly.

Enemy trains
There are no competitors that have trains in my game.
If you get more crashes your PBS settings are probably wrong.
I have a few crossings with presignal setup, and those signals have to stay presignal and so you have to unable automatic conversion to PBS off.

[watcher99]

if there is PBS-presignal then train always enter crossing, even if all lights ahead are red

I'm seeing the same thing in many of my games. Seems to be ignoring the fact that all platform of my station is full and then get stuck in the space between the entrance and the presignal until the top most platform is open (it always chooses this platform). A48 did not have this "feature"

[Rob]

Wasn't this type of behaviour supposed to be fixed ?

[Patchman]

Wasn't this type of behaviour supposed to be fixed ?

Maybe there was a train going from the middle lane to the left lane so that the other trains had to go around it?

[Rob]

Yes, looking back at the save, the oiltrain just visible on the left did that.

Never noticed it before, thought it might be something reintroduced in A49.

[Patchman]

In that case it's a really tough decision for the trains, whether to wait for a better path or to take the one they can get now even if it's not the shortest.

[krtaylor]

I've been thinking about that, actually, in a different context - that of bidirectional stations, which I use constantly and which PBS doesn't work at all well with. I'm always having trains go out the wrong end of the station, having failed to properly reverse (or reversed when they oughtn't), and I have one particular train that always jsut stops in the station and gives up, for no reason. I could send you that game if you were interested.

Anyway, I've been thinking about how it ought to work. I believe it's possible for a train to calculate the distance to its next destination, as long as it isn't too far, right? So, in the situation where a train is stopped at a station, when it starts up and considers its next destination, it should be able to look out both ends of the station to see which way would be shorter for it to go. If it encounters an opposing signal, then of course it doesn't consider going that way, but otherwise it should be able to figure out whether it should reverse i the station, or not. Then, once it's done that, if the signal is red, it waits there for the usual timeout amount before reversing.

[Patchman]

What if the other way is a bit longer but has a green signal? That's how it works at the moment.

I don't think changing the behaviour with respect to two-way signals is a wise idea. If a two-way signal is red, the train will look for a green one, and go there if it finds one. If "trains reverse at stations and at the end of line" is set, it'll look both ways for such a signal.

Changing that would break so many games that I'm not even consider doing that.

Sorry. There are some setups that PBS really doesn't support very well, and bi-di stations with "trains reverse at stations and at the end of line" set is one of them. Note that it works fine if it's set to ""trains reverse at the end of line only". It may be easier for you to add some bypass lanes to the stations in question so that trains may reverse even without that setting.

[SHADOW-XIII]

but current (a49) PBS got some bugs, am I right ?
the bug with PBS & PreSignals together not working properly

[krtaylor]

What if the other way is a bit longer but has a green signal? That's how it works at the moment.

Sometimes. It doesn't seem to be very consistent.

I don't see why it would break anybody's games if the trains checked for distance, and waited for the shorter distance even if the longer distance was green, only in the specific circumstance of all of the following conditions being met:

- The train is in a station
- The train is just starting up from having been stopped (via orders, not a signal) at that station
- The signals are such that the train is permitted to leave the station in either direction, regardless of whether the signals are bidirectional or uni-directional
- "Trains reverse at stations and at the end of line" is set

You are right that universally changing the behavior regarding two-way signals is a bad idea, and would screw up a lot of things. I'm not asking for that, just for a slightly different behavior in this one specific circumstance, which I think the train can check for.

It may be easier for you to add some bypass lanes to the stations in question so that trains may reverse even without that setting.

Yes, but that's very inefficient of space, and TTD games tend to be awfully cramped.

[Patchman]

I don't see why it would break anybody's games if the trains checked for distance, and waited for the shorter distance even if the longer distance was green, only in the specific circumstance of all of the following conditions being met:

- The train is in a station
- The train is just starting up from having been stopped (via orders, not a signal) at that station
- The signals are such that the train is permitted to leave the station in either direction, regardless of whether the signals are bidirectional or uni-directional
- "Trains reverse at stations and at the end of line" is set

That would be an awful lot of work, and liable to break in odd circumstances. Detecting the signal setup of a station is a very hard thing to do. Basically, it would be doing something that only very, very few people would benefit from. You are the only one I know who builds stations that way.

Besides, when a train is approaching a red signal, it doesn't know whether it was moving before, was stopped at a station or anything else that happened before. That information is forgotten as soon as the "Loading/unloading" disappears from the status bar, which happens before it has to make a decision about which way to leave the station.