=== A Meeting is beginning in this channel === === Remember to follow all meeting rules === == 1. Start meeting == -- LOG START -- TinFoil logs too ;P ok, it's your bot or something? yes ok, i wont log then :P == 1a. Pick a chairman and a minutes man == > purno isnt here :P Hyronymus, you be chair oh, ok will you control TinFoil then? ~ ! brb, im getting something to drink first nvm, steve instructed me we need a minutes man though Steve-?~ ! If you still have the binds we set a year ago, it'll be "/tb next" If I must ~ thank you let's move on then == 1b. Discuss minutes of previous meeting == ! back does anyone have anything to add to the \minutes of the last meeting?~ no is an answer too~ ! no ! no you neither, Steve-?~ nothing ~ lol == 2. Discuss the previous objectives == ! I guess i'll do it TinFoil is timid == 2a. General - Licensing == ! what is meant by objectives? \o/ agenda points, XeryusTC ok might be good to change the wording as you might recall we discussed the Licensing during the previous meeting as far as I can tell we haven't reached a verdict how are we going to proceed?~ > azzaz > Has anyone had a good thought about this topic? ~ XeryusTC we have desided to start a topic about the license on the forum in the last meeting, maybe we could discuss the points in that topic here http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=8497 ~ I think that's a good thing to do let's start with *GNU General Public License (GNU GPL) ~ > Steve- ! there was some other thread about the license, i'll see if i can find that too Why not decide on the points eis_os made? For instance, I'd like the project to be opened to "sell" at one stage ! http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=457833#457833 ty azzaz ! azzaz: that was the post i was looking for :) Whilst the game would be free to download, we could sell copies in boxes with manuals. I know I'm being optimistic, but would like the option. ~ and what license fits that, Steve-?~ I don't know. ~ > XeryusTC GPL allows selling of the game by a third party, but it is very lickely that we wont see money from that GPL also states that we dont have to support it if it is sold by a third party, the third party has to do that themselves ~ > Read this: http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=171779#171779 > it comes close to what Steve means~ Steve- Who is the third party? Someone other than us? That's not very cool. ~ > azzaz Hellfire's option makes it sound like we build the core, and someone else can profit from just adding graphics or whatnot > ~ I think Hellfire means we have a version like TTD free for download and sell a version like TTD Deluxe + patch~ OK, silence let's go by Oskar's points > XeryusTC i think that Hellfire meant that the "normal" version is non-boxed (downloadable) and that the "deluxe" version has a box and a manual and a nice cd ~ yes, my point "exactly" anyhow: Do want that parts of TE be reused in other games? ~ > azzaz XeryusTC: you know know what the license for your engine will be? ~ ! * do you know what... ! That's very important ^^ and the answer is LGPL I think? ~ ! azzaz: we will NOT release it under GPL for sure, LGPL could be an option if it doesnt force TE to be LGPL too, but we'll look for a good licence anyway > azzaz ! it is very likely that it will be a custom license :P if its LGPL then it means we *have* to link using DLL's, otherwise it becomes LGPL forced ~ > Steve- The only bit that people will reuse will be the core engine Just like we reuse it So I propose we have a very protective license, where people can't just take and use our code without permission > It'll belong to the people who are acting on TEmpire at the time ~ > is it possible for us to come with a custom licence too? XeryusTC > are you typing, XeryusTC?! ~ RakNet ( www.rakkarsoft.com ) has 3 license types, one is GPL, a free commercial license and a paid commercial license IIRC. i don't know if the free license is a custom license but it forbits to reuse parts of the library, it also has other things that probably wont fit in this line :P you don't have to give feedback on the free license IIRC, I think that the license could be usefull for TE and to answer your question, it could be possible for TE to have a custom license, but it will take alot of time to write a good license ~ azzaz Do "we" want to make money on this? ~ > I don't have to make money on TE, but I would be crazy if I said no to an oppurtunity~ Steve- That's not my primary target, but if I can, I do. ~ > > XeryusTC i think that we dont have to make money with it, but it would be nice that we get a part of the money if a third party makes money on TE ~ azzaz From what I gather regarding Transport Gigant (or whatever its called) there is a small market out there, something to consider ~ I want to make a proposal to speed up this meeting > ! open the floor? I propose the 4 of us and everyone else iterested answers the questions Oskar posted on the forum then we can see what people want and search a fitting licence to it~ Steve- I'll ask again XeryusTC, who is this third party? ~ Steve-: it could be anyone that happens to come across TE and wants to sell it, it could be your next door neighbour or even EA > Steve- no? ?! > azzaz what about shareware? ~ XeryusTC isn't done? ! i am done oh Is this without permission? Surely we don't want a license that would allow that. ~ > XeryusTC it is all up to the license to decide if it is without permission, that is what we're trying to decide here > azzaz although big companies as EA or Microsoft will probably contact the team before doing anything with it, but normal people probably wont ~ with shareware we could release (example)TT for free and we can see TTD+Patch etc ~ ! *sell and can shareware still be Open Source? ~ ! azzaz: are you trying to say that we will give the core program away for free and that you would have to pay for the graphics? ! i meant the binaries this is getting confusing I suggest we settle this on the forum > ~ Steve- This shareware stuff is targetting a money making scheme ! i think that we should take this conversation to the thread and discuss it on another meeting again If we wanted to just make money, I'd have put google ads on the tempire site long ago But in a past meeting, we worried how we'd split the money made, there isn't a clear way ~ ! then its clear: GPL ! how is it clear? ~ !I only want to know 1 thing: what means binding code to another code? Does that mean using it another code?!~ > XeryusTC i think that it means that people cant use TE code in commercial programs ~ ok, thx shall we move on to the next topic? ~ > !yes azzaz yes, but i move to resolve this next week or else! ~ ! or else what? :P ! 10 goto 10 that's up to us all, azzaz == 2b. Development - Sharing of infrastructure, what are our exact expectations == > I believe this and the other "objectives" were given to the TE DD Committee~ ! http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=25770 azzaz i'm confused why this is still here, after last weeks resolution? ~ part of the meeting routine but it's given to the TE DD Committee so we have to deal with this after we've agreed on the DD structure~ > ! It was meant as an evaluation tactics to see if objectives were indeed reached~ azzaz how about a representative from the DD brief everyone on how progress is going when specific tasks have been completed? ~ > instead of adding it to the agenda?~ ! the agenda item could just be "DD Committee Report" fine, we'll do that next time == 2c. Development - Industry chains == == 2d. Development - Bridge type & station design == == 2e. Review Track type discussion == all can be skipped now then agreed~ == 2f. Design Document - Design Document Comments == that one too btw~ ! yes ! i agree Steve-? ! i will resurect the track laying discussion soon btw gogogo @ == 3. New Project Objectives == == 3a. Scalable GUI == what say you?~ > Steve- We should have it. Why not? ~ > beats me :P. XeryusTC i think that we should have it, but i dont know if we have to implement vector graphics, TRoS probably wont have them, and mipmapping is good enough if bitmaps arent stretched too much ~ > Steve- Surely we'll have to implement some windowing system Which would be done with vectors? And then it's a pain to go back to non-scable? ~ noone anything to add?~ > azzaz, XeryusTC?!~ azzaz I move to go to a vote ~ can someone then please give the advantages of both approaches before we vote~ > ! heya Steve- The advantages of scalable are obvious, the text and window sizes and so on can be modified to best suit the screen resolution. ~ !sorry, real life meeting took longer, and sorry, dinner comes soon.~ > > < nvm, dinner~ XeryusTC TRoS has a flexible GUI system, we havent implemented scalable windows yet but they'll come soon, our console which is basicly a modified GUI window does change it's with if the TRoS window does but it doesnt change text size it is completely based on textures/colors right now and it works good we could use vector graphics, but for TRoS that doesnt change very much to the actual GUI Lua files as they already have most of the definitions in them, it will only be the old battle of cpu VS memory ~ > is adding scalable text a necessity for TE then and can it be done with TRoS?~ ! I don't know, I'm not the main guy behind the graphics of the engine could you ask if it can be done and get back to us on the forum?~ !preferably before next week's meeting ~ ok do you have anything to say/ask, azzaz, Steve-?~ no. ~ ! no ok, moving on then == 4. Any other business == ha, no 3b. Steve-~ == 3b. General - SVN vs. CVS == I copied the agenda like 3 mins before the meeting! ~ [16:04:47] I changed the agenda on the forum ;) ! we were talking about something before the start of the meeting anyhow, what's to say about SVN or CVS~ ! Hyronymus: maybe we could have a talk about CVS vs SVN XeryusTC, be my guest~ ok, since we're using SVN for TRoS it will be easy to also use SVN for TE, you can get the code of TRoS Engine up to date by using only one command and keeping your changes > SVN also allows branching, this way we can have a side project with experimental features before they get into the game (nightlies?) ~ azzaz i've got both clients and see no (real) difference between the two, therefore either one would be fine, and XeryusTC makes a good point ~ Steve- perhaps?~ I've never used either. ~ > azzaz Sourceforge comes with CVS, does this mean we need to create our own SVN server, and is this a trivial task? ~ > XeryusTC SF comes with SVN nowadays too IIRC, and Steve- once said that owen once offered SVN, he also has an SVN mirror for OTTD so that wouldnt be much of a problem ~ > Steve- Apparently, SF has both CVS and SVN as well as a tool to convert between them. ~ I like the fact of nightlies so I'm inclined to favour SVN > shall we run a quick poll? XeryusTC ! http://www.pushok.com/soft_svn_vscvs.php SVN wins 5-4! nightlies are a side script, you can use it with CVS or SVN, but OTTDs nightlies are compiled on the trunk code ~ ok, quick poll. Who votes SVN?~ Aye ! ! me ! i'm abstaining I think I should abstain too, to be honest it's still SVN then though~ ! Even I do that, like I should, SVN will still win :P ~ lol ok, moving on == 4. Any other business == anyone?! ~ > azzaz Can we develop a time frame to reach certain milestones? ~ yes, we had those before I suggest we come up with a milestone for the DD structure > like having the discussion finished by next weeks meeting~ azzaz Although this goes with the next section, i propose the following the next general TE meeting be held in two weeks and a DD meeting be held in its place ~ ! next week that is... !oh, that's fine with me~ ! i wont be able to attend meetings in the next 3 weeks, unless they are held later on the day or in a week-end ! how much later? ~ ! probably 5 hours or so !I can't make that :P how about weekends~ > I'm probably like XeryusTC I *might* be working azzaz i think its a bit mad that we are having these meetings without uzurpator and hellfire (if they are still on the project), or anyone else who really wants to be involved ~ ! meetings used to be at Saturday evening, 18:00 GMT ~ ! i think that that is a good time which is Steve's dinner time so? ! 2am my time...lol ~ 19:00 GMT?~ earlier for azzaz... azzaz: it's still morning there? ! its almost midnight now -azzaz- TIME Thu Jun 29 23:25:27 2006 > ok what is wise then ! we could post our times we are available and decide which is best for a meeting? we could do that sounds like a plan ! yeah :D if everyone does that before saturday we have enough time to pick a TE DD meeting date then what dates am I putting in the minutes? 1 and 2 weeks unless told otherwise 6th and 13th july? or not? yes, that's fine XeryusTC, are you a member of the TE mailing list and the TE Sourceforge team? i guess not, SF didnt allow me to subscribe :( can you try now? it probably wont do now, logins are disabled too :o i dont know if the mailing list needs an account though can you try before next meeting :P if i remember it you must i will then I think we've reached the end of the meeting, right?~ == 5. Next meeting == === End of Meeting === === Meeting rules no longer apply ===