OpenTTD 1.4.0-beta4

[planetmaker]

Time for the next beta release, OpenTTD 1.4.0-beta4.

The speed limit is now also reported for road bridges. Of course it also comes
with a number of fixes, including one crashy one related to cargo flow graphcs.
See details in the changelog.

You can obtain it as usual from our website. If you encounter any bugs, please
report them to our bug tracker.

As reminder: Now is a good time to complete and review
translations; if you're not yet a translator, feel free to apply.
Creative players are still encouraged to participate in the
titlegame competition, deadline is 15th February.

Enjoy,
Your OpenTTD team

[GunChleoc]

Speaking of translation, I find this new string rather odd:

STR_NEWGRF_BROKEN_CAPACITY

{WHITE}It changed vehicle capacity for '{1:ENGINE}' when not inside a depot or refitting

What does "it" refer to? Is "changed" a typo for "changes"?

[planetmaker]

Speaking of translation, I find this new string rather odd:

STR_NEWGRF_BROKEN_CAPACITY

{WHITE}It changed vehicle capacity for '{1:ENGINE}' when not inside a depot or refitting

What does "it" refer to? Is "changed" a typo for "changes"?

No typo. It can only be determined when the error has been detected, when it already occured.

Error:
Behaviour of NewGRF 'tunixgut.grf' is likely to cause desyncs and/or crashes:
It changed vehicle capacity for 'mega-duper-wagon' when not inside a depot or refitting

[gpsoft]

How can I fix this error?
I didn't play this game long time and just have seen there is a new beta. The installation was completely clean, I didn't have an old version.

[kamnet]

Download the latest nightly update of OpenGFX. http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/ ... es/LATEST/

[planetmaker]

Download the latest nightly update of OpenGFX. http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/ ... es/LATEST/

IIRC a simple update via ingame content download should suffice

[GunChleoc]

Speaking of translation, I find this new string rather odd:

STR_NEWGRF_BROKEN_CAPACITY

{WHITE}It changed vehicle capacity for '{1:ENGINE}' when not inside a depot or refitting

What does "it" refer to? Is "changed" a typo for "changes"?

No typo. It can only be determined when the error has been detected, when it already occured.

Error:
Behaviour of NewGRF 'tunixgut.grf' is likely to cause desyncs and/or crashes:
It changed vehicle capacity for 'mega-duper-wagon' when not inside a depot or refitting

Thanks, that gives me some context. I just noticed another problem though: In my language, I can't just say "depot", I have to say "road vehicle depot", "train depot" etc, just like "hangar" has a special term in English.

[planetmaker]

Thanks, that gives me some context. I just noticed another problem though: In my language, I can't just say "depot", I have to say "road vehicle depot", "train depot" etc, just like "hangar" has a special term in English.

Well, then you have to find something appropriate or write a longer string listing it all. Hangars are meant in this context as well - and the English original happily skips mentioning them.

[GunChleoc]

Good idea, this should solve the problem for now.

I seem to remember encountering this problem before and not being the only one struggling with it. Considering the overall amount of strings to translate, splitting these type of strings into 4 strings won't make too much difference for the languages that don't need this distinction and greatly help those who do.

[Simons Mith]

@GunChleoc [and other translators] - given the extensive string rewrite I'm already doing anyway, I'd be more than happy to split all the translatable strings into translator friendly versions. If you really need a set of four error strings, for each type of depot, I can do it. [Although in this particular case it may be more appropriate to expand the english original] Where else would splitting sets of strings up more finely be useful for translators?

This isn't a complete fix, because the strings would all have to be coded into the main game, but that's more likely to happen if they actually exist!

[Alberth]

Another problem is that the code has to decide which string to pick, information which may not be readily available. (Edit: In the context where the string is selected.)

@GunChleoc
Can you express a storage place where they have all kinds of vehicles?

I find it very surprising that it's not possible to express "a place where vehicles get repaired" at all.

[gpsoft]

Download the latest nightly update of OpenGFX. http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/ ... es/LATEST/

I tried (this: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/ ... x-5082.zip), and doesn't work, still the same message. Is that version 5082 the latest?

[Alberth]

Looks that way, I have 5054, and no messages.
Most likely you have put the new file at the wrong place. The readme file explains in detail where to put the file.
Also, you have to put it in a "baseset" directory, and you have to unzip it. (A .tar extension is ok, OpenTTD can read .tar files.)

[GunChleoc]

@GunChleoc [and other translators] - given the extensive string rewrite I'm already doing anyway, I'd be more than happy to split all the translatable strings into translator friendly versions. If you really need a set of four error strings, for each type of depot, I can do it. [Although in this particular case it may be more appropriate to expand the english original] Where else would splitting sets of strings up more finely be useful for translators?

This isn't a complete fix, because the strings would all have to be coded into the main game, but that's more likely to happen if they actually exist!

Thank you.

The problem for me is wherever "depot" gets used as a generic.

@GunChleoc
Can you express a storage place where they have all kinds of vehicles?

I find it very surprising that it's not possible to express "a place where vehicles get repaired" at all.

If there was, this problem would already be solved.

There theroetically is the word lann, but without specifying which type of lann it is, it is too generic, because it means any type of place where you can put stuff. -lann is used to form words ranging from "laboratory" to "stadium". I could go for carbad-lann = vehicle place, but that would mean creating a new word that's not already in the language and sound very contrived. Although sort of understandable, native speakers will not really accept it, because it doesn't feel natural. My current translations are garaids (widely used loan word), trèana-lann (newly created), cala (traditional word) and hangar (widely used loan word). So, the connection to XX-lann wouldn't be readily apparent either, because -lann is used in only 1 of the 4 terms.

[beeurd]

@GunChleoc [and other translators] - given the extensive string rewrite I'm already doing anyway, I'd be more than happy to split all the translatable strings into translator friendly versions. If you really need a set of four error strings, for each type of depot, I can do it. [Although in this particular case it may be more appropriate to expand the english original] Where else would splitting sets of strings up more finely be useful for translators?

This isn't a complete fix, because the strings would all have to be coded into the main game, but that's more likely to happen if they actually exist!

Thank you.

The problem for me is wherever "depot" gets used as a generic.

@GunChleoc
Can you express a storage place where they have all kinds of vehicles?

I find it very surprising that it's not possible to express "a place where vehicles get repaired" at all.

If there was, this problem would already be solved.

There theroetically is the word lann, but without specifying which type of lann it is, it is too generic, because it means any type of place where you can put stuff. -lann is used to form words ranging from "laboratory" to "stadium". I could go for carbad-lann = vehicle place, but that would mean creating a new word that's not already in the language and sound very contrived. Although sort of understandable, native speakers will not really accept it, because it doesn't feel natural. My current translations are garaids (widely used loan word), trèana-lann (newly created), cala (traditional word) and hangar (widely used loan word). So, the connection to XX-lann wouldn't be readily apparent either, because -lann is used in only 1 of the 4 terms.

I can't say I know much about the language, but am I right that inneal-giùlain is a generic reference to a vehicle?

If I've got my wires crossed then never mind, but if not is there any way you could play off that to come to an equivalent phrase that meant a vehicle depot?

[GunChleoc]

inneal-giùlain literally means "transport device", but I'm using "carbad" for vehicle anyway - it's much shorter, and a familiar word.

Any generic term will sound contrived, because I would have to make it up. Native speakers will be unfamiliar with it and have to think about what on earth I'm talking about. Listing the types of depot is the lesser of two evils IMO.

The language has been locked out of the schools, the workplace and public life (except for farming and things like that) since before the industrial revolution, so people have to put up with way too many new items of vocabulary as it is.

Thanks for trying to help though, it is much appreciated

[Alberth]

Since vehicle type seems problematic, maybe use a generic "place where people work on machines" kind of word (that is, leave out that they work on vehicles at all)?
The context itself is clear enough to understand that they work on vehicles

[GunChleoc]

Far too complicated, and the users won't be able to make a direct connection in their brains to the 4 depot types. It isn't enough to have a word that might work on its own, we have to see this in context. It needs to be readily apparent to the user what I'm talking about, and making up a new word that has no connection with the 4 terms widely used in the game won't help. It's better to make a list, which is what I've done so far.

One very important aspect of usability is to always call the same thing the same thing.

[kamnet]

Sounds to me like "garage" is appropriate for road vehicles, "depot" for rail vehicles, "dockyard" for ships, "hangar" for aircraft. Whatever the equivalent might be.

[Eddi]

i'm having some kind of déjà vu...