Project: cargodest

[el koeno]

I'm not sure if this is a bug, but I'm playing a game in the tropical climate, and I connected a water supply to my network. The water goes onto trucks, that pass a train-station and a water tower. The problem is that the trucks unload all their cargo at the station, so they drive to the water tower for nothing. The trains do the same thing, i.e. they drop the water at first water tower they encounter.

I've got all cargo types set to "chosen destinations". If this behaviour is not expected, or it is unclear what I mean, I'll upload a savegame.

EDIT: oops, there simply was too much cargo waiting at the water supply. This meant that only the first stations got served, and the cargo for the other stations remained at the water supply.

EDIT2: This proves to be more fun than I expected! I have mixed trains running all over the place, and figuring out the best routes is quite fun. I'm even considering building mega-multi-modal-logistical centres (MMMLCs), with rail and road links, where food, water and goods are distributed and raw materials are collected. Shame I'm not using interesting GRFs at the time. Different wagon speeds would make it even more fun.

[athanasios]

Oh no, this patch makes game very addictive. I cannot stop playing OTTD now.

[_Robbie_]

Me neither. The only thing I don't like so much about the patch is amount of generated passangers. It's insane! Once cities "grow" around my stations, there is no way I can get rid of 2000 or 3000 people waiting to get to a far-far-away location, or better yet - to a busstop in the middle of a city. I mean - come on - how much busses is it possible to put on a single route? It's even worse with "metro" (or rather trains going round in a city) - they're just impossible to empty.

The problem is that even though number of passangers generated might be the same as it used to be, transfers makes the hordes double or tripple, or quadruple, or...well, you get the point, don't you? Without destinations passangers just get out of their vehicles on nearest stop (unsatisfied customers, or what?), while with the patch they can stay in a train/bus/whatever and add up to the amount of newly generated people.

[little off-topic]
Another thing I have thought of - timetables might be very usefull if used properly, especially with city transport, but as it looks now they're difficult to set-up and maintain. They just require way too much micromanagment. Autofill made them easier. Maedhros' much made them even better (shame that it is on hold/abandonded). There is also another patch floating around on forums (http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=38948) and it sounds like it makes work easier. I wonder why there's so little interest in those patches . Am I the only one who thinks that timetables require too much attention?
[/OT]

[el koeno]

[little off-topic]
Another thing I have thought of - timetables might be very usefull if used properly, especially with city transport, but as it looks now they're difficult to set-up and maintain. They just require way too much micromanagment. Autofill made them easier. Maedhros' much made them even better (shame that it is on hold/abandonded). There is also another patch floating around on forums (http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=38948) and it sounds like it makes work easier. I wonder why there's so little interest in those patches . Am I the only one who thinks that timetables require too much attention?
[/OT]

You're totally right. I loved MagicBuzz's autoseperate patch. The only thing I hated was to update the timetables everytime vehicles got upgraded.

Also, the amount of passenger thing is a problem. Even in my tropical game, I could easily make a profit with just a bus and a train route. I don't think that used to be even remotely possible, and it's not like the game was too hard before.

[cmoiromain]

I'd be best if you could show me a savegame or something

Celestar

sorry, I just updated some grfs and that game went totally crazy (interrogation points instead of coaches etc...)

If I get to this messy situation again I will upload it here.

[Celestar]

There will be an option to reduce the amount of passengers generated soon I guess

Celestar

[Eddi]

the problem i faced when trying to reduce the amount of passengers generated:

the passengers get generated during the tileloop, and when just dividing the generated passengers there by n, in some cases, the amount of passengers can get reduced to 0 because of rounding issues. another way i found working was to introduce a counter that increases when the tileloop starts over, then in the passenger generation function you can do a if(_tileloop_counter%n!=0) return; after the other stuff like house construction, but before the generation of passengers

[prissi]

The same I was using in my patch, i.e. a counter for the bits not used due to rounding issues. However, I trust any OpenTTD developer (and thus Celestar) enough to come up with something useful without our suggestions

[aepurniet]

station limits should be able to fix that situation. i dont know if anyone is working on it. might even be grf doable. if a passenger (cargo) is generated, it gets split amongst the stations in range according to the station rating. if one of those stations is full, it goes to the next station (or is discarded). large rail stations will have large limits (based on tiles), small bus stops will have smaller limits (drive through stops will have tiny limits). maybe we can find a use for those eyecandy station buildings to increase capacity (or loading times). i still would love to see a full simutrans / traffic giant model where passengers are generated with a destination in mind, (not by default "arcade" mode is still lots of fun sometimes).

[Eddi]

the problem with that approach is, "station size (in tiles)" has absolutely no corellation to the efficiency of service. alternatively, station rating should depend on capacity of vehicles servicing it, and drop faster when stockpiles are growing beyond the capacity of one vehicle. that way, the production of passengers will adjust better to the real transportation capacity. but this is an entirely different issue (and there is already a topic about that)

[glx]

I don't mean to sound thick, but what do you mean by "default include list"?

I've tried "make -I ~/boost_1_36_0".
I've tried "export PATH=~/boost_1_36_0:$PATH" followed by a simple "make".
I've tried "./configure -L~boost_1_36_0" followed by "make".
I've tried "./configure --shared-dir=~/boost_1_36_0" followed by "make". This did actually appear to pick up the boost directory, but couldn't find any files in there.

All of the above result in the make command being totally unable to find the boost files.

If somebody could explain in simple terms exactly which hoops I have to jump through in order to get this working, I would be most grateful.

(Incidentally, for what it's worth, I'm using an iMac with OSX Leopard. I don't know if that makes a difference.)

You tried everything except the right one
Try "./configure --CFLAGS=-I~/boost_1_36_0"

[Wibblebutt]

I've been using the latest binary (openttd_rev_19735) and noticed that busses and trams seem to get negative income when transporting transferred passengers.

Here is a savegame for example:

Tramsandbussesnegative.sav

(316.02 KiB) Downloaded 123 times

Oh, and what does 'transfer credits' do and mean in the vehicle information?

[cmoiromain]

I was about to point the same thing out!

Here is a savegame (done with the first windows binary posted here, I haven't tried the second since someone said it was buggy)

look at the RERs A, B and D (mainly A and D)

once they pick up passengers from the TGV station, they have a negative income when depositing them at their destination. There must be something wrong, and I guess this is the reason why I could not get any more money in my previous game (what I had described earlier).

[Wan-To]

Btw, the game crashes when someone tries to turn on the cargodest map in the scenario editor.

[bokkie]

Negative income probably has something to do with waiting time/slow transport speed after arriving with the TGV. This still means you make money, but the total income is less than the transfer income by the TGV. (All just a guess on my side). Not the solution to your problem, but it looks weird!

[dbkblk]

I was thinking the same about your problem but this don't seem to be that... I also got this problem on my savegame.

I also have this problem without cargodest. If i transfer wood from two forests transported by trucks until a station, then trains transport the wood from the station to the sawmill; my trains also got negative profit.

[el koeno]

I think Bokkie is right.

When passengers transfer, the train they leave gets "transfer money" for the leg they just finished. This is not money in your pocket, it does not show on your bank account. It's just for accounting purposes, so that you don't have a bunch of trains that will show with negative profit, because all their cargo is transferred. This is handy if you care about your performance index I guess. Anyway, when the passengers exit their train at their final destination, all the "transfer money" from the previous legs is deducted from the final train's income. Your bank account will get the full sum the passengers pay of course, it's just that the final train will only get the part that wasn't earned by other trains as "transfer money." The problems occur when the first leg of their journey was very speedy, and earns a lot of transfer money. If the passengers then have to wait for a long time at the station, and their connecting service is also slow, it might well be that the total travel time is so long, that it hardly pays any more. This will mean that sum for the trip is less than the transfer money! This will result in the last train having negative income.

Now this was a long story you might already know, and it might not be the problem described. But well, perhaps someone will find it clarifying.

[Wan-To]

I've got another problem... There some stations where no passengers go to. They can go via these stations, they transfer here, but these stations aren't their final destinations. Never. And I don't know why.

I noticed that two of my stations (but it can be more) are doing this. Look at the screenshot, there's "New Prague Main Station". It's the biggest station in the game, it serves buses, commuter trains, express trains, just everything. But it behaves like a some kind of transfer station. People only change a vehicle here, they don't leave. But this station produces passangers, it just doesn't accept them, although it should.

I can post a savegame, but I'm not sure if it would work to other people because of other patches (daylength and distant join stations ... hm, maybe it's because of the distant join).

[Mondane]

I've got another problem... There some stations where no passengers go to. They can go via these stations, they transfer here, but these stations aren't their final destinations. Never. And I don't know why.

I noticed that two of my stations (but it can be more) are doing this. Look at the screenshot, there's "New Prague Main Station". It's the biggest station in the game, it serves buses, commuter trains, express trains, just everything. But it behaves like a some kind of transfer station. People only change a vehicle here, they don't leave. But this station produces passangers, it just doesn't accept them, although it should.

I can post a savegame, but I'm not sure if it would work to other people because of other patches (daylength and distant join stations ... hm, maybe it's because of the distant join).

Aren't there 3566 passengers arriving?

[Wan-To]

Aren't there 3566 passengers arriving?

No, that's New Prague Central. This stations is New Prague Main Station.