New Economy Model?

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Aracirion
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New Economy Model?

Post by Aracirion »

It has become apparent form discussing New Graphics, that the way they are done also depends on possibly creating a modified economy. Here I want to summarise some ideas which together might form a basis for further discussion.
I am a graphic artist and not a programmer, but I would like to know if there is real interest in a changed economy and if it is worth developing Graphics for it. Crucially, the way new graphics are made also depends on whether developers are found which are wiling to work on such a new economy or not.

Cities
There should be fewer cities, so there is more space for expansion and landscape. A City consists of the city itself and also villages in the surroundings, which are themselves districts, just not adjacent to the city districts themselves. As cities expand, new districts are created (zoning), eventually enveloping the villages into large suburbs. Districts could look something like that.
There should be different kinds of districts, with different properties (cf. next section).


passenger destinations
There are local (travel within city) and intercity passengers. Passengers are created by districts and have districts as their destination. Different districts should produce different kinds of passengers:

* Suburbs produce many passengers to the city centre (and to industrial districts? could industries be located in industrial districts?)
* City Centre produces some intercity traffic to other close-by city centres
* Metropolitan districts produce passengers to other metropolitan, close and far away.

passengers could also be produced to random districts on the map
(this could also be used to simulate tourism, using special relaxation districts eg for cities on tropical islands)

Passengers are produced in groups of a certain size, and then they decide what route they will take on the basis of parameters like speed, frequency of service, avg. waiting time at station, price. (This way 'full load' wouldn't be necessary anymore for getting a good rating.)

possible mechanism
(A) Cities maintain a list of ways to reach other cities ([route #..., get on @ ..., hop off @ ...], [...])
(B) Districts maintain a list of ways to get to other districts of the same city

After being created, a packet of intercity passengers chooses the way to target city on the basis of (A), then on the Basis of (B) they choose how to reach the origin of their intercity route, and on the basis of (B) of the other city, they decide how to get to their ultimate destination after reaching the other city. They then carry with them their journey plan they have to follow. If there is no route from their current district to the origin of their intercity route they could use a taxi. That way, intercity routes could be profitable before building a local network.

Local passengers of course just need (B).


desired effects on game-play
The main effect of this new economy should be focus on network building more than just building yet another new line connecting just 2 stations. It would also open up more possibilities for competitive playing. For example, an established a-b-c-d route (which earns player HANS a lot of money) could suddenly be challenged by a new express route a-d. the number of passengers travelling on each line would then not be determined by the awkward station rating, but by real quality of service.


The new economy should be integrated with a more variable Landscape, like in the following example: part of a river delta, the sea being top left, the river bottom right.
Image

On another place of the same map, an Island:
Image

Now, with the new economy, instead of building like this:
Image
Towns could be linked by buses and maybe a train-line, and there could be one big international airport somewhere in the empty space of the delta, which people from all the surrounding towns access by bus/train.
The Island could initially be served only by boat, but as people get more money/the town grows a bit someone might make the investment of creating an airstrip there. As the whole island could be used (no 4-square catchment area) it would be far more interesting than just building another international airport into the sea in front of it.
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Last edited by Aracirion on 02 Jan 2007 17:50, edited 1 time in total.
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athanasios
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Post by athanasios »

About position of industries: Industrial zones out but near to the city and further away the raw industries (forests, farms, mines...)
Above should not be restrictive on where industries are build on map generation, but a high probability. Also when player funds new industry this limitation should not be restrictive, unless his rating from city is not good, or something like local city restrictions have been in force (e.g: no more industries if many around the city due to pollution or no industries in this town as it is a tourist attraction, specific industrial zone in force, city has grown enough and does not allow industries near the city but further away.)
What should be avoided is a fixed restriction on the distance from edge of map or from the center of the city where is allowed to build a specific industry. I do not know how this stupidity is in OpenTTD, and nobody protests. I am sorry if someone is offended, or has another opinion, but this is my view, and I have a hundred reasons for it.
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Post by richk67 »

If you dont like it that much, get in there and create a patch for everyone to enjoy. It is Open TTD for a reason...
OTTD NewGRF_ports. Add an airport design via newgrf.Superceded by Yexo's NewGrf Airports 2
Want to organise your trains? Try Routemarkers.
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Post by DaleStan »

Or, better yet, just implement newindustries (which is, I suppose, just a special case of "create a patch"), since that allows you to specify precisely the distances involved for each industry.
To get a good answer, ask a Smart Question. Similarly, if you want a bug fixed, write a Useful Bug Report. No TTDPatch crashlog? Then follow directions.
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Post by Aracirion »

Umh, maybe this is thinking ahead too far, but anyway:

Maybe a ttd map could have different regions. NewGrfs would specify in what region they occur. Instead of just playing tropical or temperate, you could have a tree with checkboxes to select the elements from which your landscape will be constructed:

Code: Select all

O   Temperate Region
|---O   English Village
|---O   London Buildings
|---O   Beer Industry

O   Tropical Region
|---O   Gold Mine & Industry
|---O   Tropical Island
I had this Idea when I started doing some graphics specifically depicting English village houses (wiki) and thought it would be nice to have ttd construct cities with a more distinct identity...
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Post by mosfet »

I think this is something that can be combined with the NewIndustries branch, but I like the idea. I'm for anything that makes TTD more realistic and intelligent without detracting from gameplay.

I've always wanted to make the town building AI seek out other towns to connect to by road, rather than just leaving it to transport companies. I might have a go at this some time this week.

It's 'Graphics' btw :)
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yes!

Post by Volny »

Passanger destinations is a must have feature. I guess it is rather complex to program, but it really brings completly new element to game. I really love passanger destination patch, but i get buggy with large networks...
The zones idea is quite nice, but maybe not needed? does it really matter if destinations are genererated house by house instead of zone by zone? It is maybe less CPU demanding, but all the extra stuff to be added and solved may be quite complex - for example, if station area is just one tile within the zone it can get all passangers from the zone? or only percentual portion?
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Re: yes!

Post by Aracirion »

Volny wrote:The zones idea is quite nice, but maybe not needed? does it really matter if destinations are genererated house by house instead of zone by zone?
Zones (districts) was meant to control direction of movement (eg. suburb-->city centre) and to control the amount of long-distance travelers (more between metropolitan areas) etc. but maybe this can be solved differently.
Volny wrote:if station area is just one tile within the zone it can get all passangers from the zone? or only percentual portion?
Yeah, I don't know ... in my opinion current catchment area has its problems as well though, as explained here .... anybody got any idea?

p.s.:
mosfet wrote:It's 'Graphics' btw :)
yeah ... thanx ... changed it ... can't promise it's not gonna turn up again though ... :D
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