Priority Signal

bobingabout · Post by **bobingabout** » 27 Jun 2006 12:59

it was an "Idea", yes thems the hints... i did it all last night, at which point only bri had posted.

bobingabout · Post by **bobingabout** » 28 Jun 2006 12:50

here is a *Better* preview...

and some Semaphores!!!

Hazelrah · Post by **Hazelrah** » 28 Jun 2006 23:14

I'm sorry if I offended you with that comment... I really didn't mean to!

I really do think that your doing good work and would like you to keep it up!

That being said, I've been thinking a lot over the past day about the design of the priority signal itself. I found approximatly where I think it should go in the code. But before that I'd like to get some more design details down, so I've also been thinking of scenerios and creating more pictures like that one you did with the depot. I've got quite a few so I think I need to put them up on my discusion page on the wiki to organize it properly.

But I had this realization a little while ago and I want to write it down before I forget:

Assuming no PBS, priority signals are a natrual extension of presiginals. But if there is PBS, it makes lots of sense to make it an extesion of PBS. Instead of acting as a reverse exit signal, it allows a train to reserve a path through the signal. This would even eliminate the need to put an entrance signal on the low priority line.

Of course I haven't researched the old PBS code and don't know anything about the new PBS code either, so I'm not arguing feasability here.

-Hazelrah

bobingabout · Post by **bobingabout** » 29 Jun 2006 15:58

nah, they were kinda s***, didn't like them either.

anyway, attached is hopefully 2 sets of light signals all 4 types (normal and the 3 pre-signals) , which include yellow signal states. first 1 is 3-aspect lights, second is 4-aspect lights.

another 2 sets of semephores, of all 4 types, including "Home" and "Distant" signals, 2 state.

the 3rd file includes a "Yellow signal state" semaphore set, AKA "Home+Distant", which is 3 state.

i can try and make a NewGRF, however, there are only 2 options. first option would be to make it without the yellow states, which would render the "Home+Distant" semephores useless instantly. second GRF i could make would be a "Yelsig2.grf" for the yellow signals patch. this would include either 3 aspect or 4 aspect light signals, together with the "Home+Distant" semaphores.

Hazelrah · Post by **Hazelrah** » 29 Jun 2006 22:48

Did you give up on the replacable signal type color idea? actually I really thought that was neat since it would allow expandability for the programmers who don't know jack about art, like me

-Hazelrah

bobingabout · Post by **bobingabout** » 30 Jun 2006 07:48

actually, i'm working with them on ideas for some NFO code at the moment.

Brianetta · Post by **Brianetta** » 30 Jun 2006 07:57

bobingabout, your semaphores don't have a lamp. For night time use they had a light source, and the back of the flag had a set of filters that coloured the light depending on the position. Just a thought - it's not like TTD has a night cycle.

Wolf01 · Post by **Wolf01** » 30 Jun 2006 11:02

Brianetta wrote:[...]Just a thought - it's not like TTD has a night cycle.

not yet, but with sacro and mine daylength patch if we want we can have day-night cycle, is only to add an alpha/blending layer over all things (and below the menus)

bob, what about also pbs presignals?

bobingabout · Post by **bobingabout** » 30 Jun 2006 11:12

actually, they do have a "Lamp"... its a single pixel, right at the joint of the arm.

also attached is a set of "London Underground" signals as requested by Sacro for "Through the tube".

they are basicly signal lights that show the corosponding lamp colour as displayed by a semaphore signal.

"Automatic" signal, AKA "Home" or "Stop" signal shows green for go, and red for stop.

"Distant" signal shows green for next light is green, so go, and yellow for next light is red, slow down.

then the tall 1 is both on the same post, like combined semaphores, except they are all encased in the same frame. top 2 lights are green/red, buttom 2 are green/yellow. this signal always has 2 lights on, go is green/green, slow down is green/yellow and stop is red/yellow.

bobingabout · Post by **bobingabout** » 03 Jul 2006 13:46

a thought i had earlier

as probably stated before, there are 16 sets with 16 types each, here is a list of how they are ATM

sets:
0 = light signals
1 = Semaphores
new sets
2 = 3-aspect lights
3 = "Home+Distant" signals
4 = 4-aspect lights

Types:
0 = normal
1 = pre-signal entrance
2 = pre-signal exit
3 = pre-signal combo
4 = PBS
5 = PBS pre-signal entrance
6 = PBS Pre-signal Exit
7 = PBS Pre-signal Combo
new types
8 = priority signal (not PBS because it is designed to stop a train if another is close.)
9 = distant signal

i decided to make distant a type instead of a set, since you shouldn't really be able to include much logic(such as pre-signals) in there since it is a repeater only. it can't stop trains, only slow them down with a yellow signal state. as such a distant signal shouldn't be placed inside a pre-signal block.

as (i think) stated before, not all sets need to use all signal types. a type is only available if it has been loaded, nsignalsw.grf automaticly loads a full 8 type 2 sets.

comments? ideas?

also, there was the idea of loading a button graphic, for expansion of the signals gui, to allow easy selection between the sets. KUDr sugested a drop down box, like how you select rail types. switching between types within a set should still be done via CTRL-Clicking, however selecting between sets can no longer be done by CTRL-Clicking when placing the signal because there is now more than 2 sets.

Hazelrah · Post by **Hazelrah** » 05 Jul 2006 03:48

bobingabout wrote: 8 = priority signal (not PBS because it is designed to stop a train if another is close.)

Not to contradict you, but I really do think that a priority signal can be made a logical extension of PBS. PBS is designed to stop a train if another one already has reserved the track. If you can reserve track through priority signals, then you get the same effect.

At this point in time though it probably would be easier to implement a priority pre-signal though.

also, there was the idea of loading a button graphic, for expansion of the signals gui, to allow easy selection between the types. KUDr sugested a drop down box, like how you select rail types. switching between types within a set should still be done via CTRL-Clicking, however selecting between sets can no longer be done by CTRL-Clicking when placing the signal because there is now more than 2 sets.

Wow, that is not a bad idea. It has to be fleshed out a bit. How do you deal with the combinations between Signal Variant (Electric or semaphore) and Signal Type (Normal, entrance, exit, combo, PBS, etc.)?

If you have any ideas, I'd love to see a layout, but I'll be giving it some thought myself! If we come up with anything, I'll definitly put the work into implementing it.

-Hazelrah

bobingabout · Post by **bobingabout** » 17 Jul 2006 08:52

OTTD currently doesn't even have PBS...

Hazelrah · Post by **Hazelrah** » 17 Jul 2006 14:06

Coming back to this one eh?

Yes, I'm doing my best to keep my self aware of the current state of PBS, and besides Hackykid's hack inside the MiniIN, there is no PBS in OTTD. But I was thinking a little bit more to the future when KUDr releases his PBS.

BTW, have you made any progress with making a signals NewGRF?

-Hazelrah

daimoh · Post by **daimoh** » 17 Jul 2006 23:49

This may be heresy, but I'm more interested in being able to see what the signals are doing rather than having them look good. In that light, I have specific trouble with the stock-distribution seeing the difference between "combo" and "exit" signals (yellow and grey vertical bars) - and that's the front-on view. Don't even get me started about side/back views!

My suggestion for fixing this is that the bar be equally visible no matter which way the light is facing. That way, the stock-lights can be left as-is, but the bar is clearly visible from all angles. Also, the vertical grey bar for exit signals should be changed to a disc/circle - easily differentiable from the vertical grey bar of the combo signal. I don't mind what colour (I like the idea of red personally - just because it's so easy to see) because you can clearly see the difference between a disc and a vertical bar, and likewise the difference between a vertical bar and a horizontal bar.

PBS signals... well, I haven't even started playing with PBS, let alone think about signals, but I'm thinking something equally garish for those!

Hazelrah · Post by **Hazelrah** » 18 Jul 2006 00:29

Hmm, that's a good point. I don't know too much about real signals, but I'm under the impression that those bars used for pre signals don't really exist in RL. They're purely for the user's benifit, right? So just make them always facing the user no mater what angle the signal is placed.

As far as PBS is concerned, the way that KUDr is currently designing it, the normal signal behavior will be PBS, so that there will be no need for a special PBS looking signal. I think that's how the patch works now too.

-Hazelrah

bobingabout · Post by **bobingabout** » 18 Jul 2006 08:18

yer, TBH its annoying.

i've not actually started making a NewGRF for these signals. will get round to it soon though i hope.

daimoh · Post by **daimoh** » 18 Jul 2006 09:57

hey bobing, what tools are you using to edit the grf files? I assume you use a decoder, some kind of paint program, and an encoder? Which ones?

bobingabout · Post by **bobingabout** » 18 Jul 2006 12:50

currently GRFCodec and MSPaint. although when it comes to palette i'll probably run it through paint shop pro 8.

get yourself a picture of the windows palette from TTDPatch site somewhere so you can grab the colours

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