Planeset [version 1.5.3 released 2006-10-24]

[DaleStan]

Yes, it's fixed.

That is the latest version, and will remain so until some time after beta 2 is released.

[mart3p]

Sorry to give you another problem, but if I understand correctly, the Ruslan should not carry passengers. This only happens when first built, refitting works correctly.

[PikkaBird]

Sorry to give you another problem, but if I understand correctly, the Ruslan should not carry passengers. This only happens when first built, refitting works correctly.

Currently, there seem to be bugs in TTDP with aircraft fitting when first built.

http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=24242

[DaleStan]

For once, this is not my bug.

I think that's a different bug, Pikka. But yes, TTDPatch has a bug with its handling of planes that can't carry passengers (bug report). It's on Patchman's TODO, so I assume it'll be fixed by the time 2.5 final is released.

(If you're wondering why the 150 pax capacity: At one point, the Ruslan was refitted to the correct cargo, but kept the old capacity, so when I added CB15 (refit capacity), I changed the 600 passenger "capacity" (which, by default, gives the appropriate 150 tons for most cargos) to 150 passengers, which, for a time, resulted in a correct 150 tons of coal capacity when first built.)

[PikkaBird]

And another one: if you replace an aircraft which is refitted to cargo, the new aircraft is correctly refitted but retains its mail capacity too.

I think that's a different bug, Pikka.

To me, it all seems to come under the general heading "planes have incorrect cargo type/capacity when purchased". Exactly how many underlying bugs there are is up to Patchman.

[krtaylor]

Is the website all correct now?

[Grigory1]

DaleStan

Weight of one bag of valuables: 2/16 ton
Weight of one head of livestock: 3/16 ton
Resultant weight-based capacity for valuables and livestock: 8 bags or 5 1/3 head per ton of capacity. If you still think that this is a problem and want this fixed, I need either:
1) new capacities for all 41 aircraft for each incorrect cargo, or
2) correct weight for each incorrect cargo
As I've said before, pulling numbers out of a hat is not something I'm particularly good at doing.

Can be
For cargoes in weight less 750кг to enter correction factor of capacity 0.75,
For cargoes in weight less 450кг to enter correction factor 0.5,
For cargoes in weight less 150кг to enter correction factor 0.25

[DaleStan]

Weight of one bag of valuables: 2/16 ton
Weight of one head of livestock: 3/16 ton
Resultant weight-based capacity for valuables and livestock: 8 bags or 5 1/3 head per ton of capacity. If you still think that this is a problem and want this fixed, I need either:
1) new capacities for all 41 aircraft for each incorrect cargo, or
2) correct weight for each incorrect cargo
As I've said before, pulling numbers out of a hat is not something I'm particularly good at doing.

Can be
For cargoes in weight less 750кг to enter correction factor of capacity 0.75,
For cargoes in weight less 450кг to enter correction factor 0.5,
For cargoes in weight less 150кг to enter correction factor 0.25

1. I'm assume that "кг" is supposed to be "1/1000 ton"? (note that this is non necessarily the same as "kg": short ton, metric ton, long ton)
2. Cargo weight is measured in units of 1/16 ton. Accordingly, please use units of either 1/16 ton or 1 ton. (but not decimal tons; convert them to sixteenth tons.)

Possible? Yes. Justifiable? That I'm having trouble with.
Planes are usually designed to carry passengers. Passengers are one of the least dense cargos in existence, so when a plane is refitted to carry some other cargo, the cargo's weight, not its volume, is going to control the maximum load.

For a few examples:
Valuables are transported in units weighing 2/16 ton, but are usually very dense.
Wood (one of the least dense cargos) is transported in 16/16 ton units.

krtaylor: There's still a stray 1.1 on the download page, and the minimum version is 2.5 beta 1, not 2.0.1 alpha 73.

[Grigory1]

I am sorry DaleStan
кг=Kg

[George]

Possible? Yes. Justifiable? That I'm having trouble with.

I think that Idea is correct. We have discussed it with Michael Blunk long time ago for box wagons. We decided that for cargos not only the weight should be taken into account, but also a volume too. That should be right for airplanes too, I think. We decided that cargos which are "measured in tons" or "litres" in general should not take the volume into account, but for cargos that are transported in bags, crates and so on, the volume should be taken into account. Livestock, for example. You can see that this idea is supported with LV4. I think that something similar would be nice for Planes too, and the coefficients, which Grigory1 suggested to you, sound reasonable.

Code: Select all

Name	Sugges Capacit	Volume factor	Capacity
Cereals	100	0.93	93.00
Fertiliser	100	0.70	70.00
Fibre crops	100	0.80	80.00
Fish	100	0.90	90.00
Food	100	0.80	80.00
Fruit	100	0.90	90.00
Livestock	533	0.22	117.33
Oil seeds	100	0.90	90.00
Wool	400	0.40	160.00
Coal	100	0.98	98.00
Valuables	800	0.16	128.00
Gold	800	0.18	144.00
Ceramics	400	0.30	120.00
Diamonds	800	0.16	128.00
Water	100	1.00	100.00
Glass	267	0.50	133.33
Sand	100	0.95	95.00
Dyes	100	0.80	80.00
Oil	107	1.05	112.00
Petrol	123	1.10	135.38
Potash	100	0.91	91.00
Refined products	107	1.05	112.00
Sulphur	100	0.95	95.00
Bricks	100	0.99	99.00
Cement	100	1.00	100.00
Limestone	100	0.90	90.00
Wheat	100	0.95	95.00
Grain	100	0.94	94.00
Batteries	400	0.25	100.00
Bubbles	1600	0.08	128.00
Cola	100	0.95	95.00
Cotton Candy (Candyfloss)	100	0.85	85.00
Fizzy Drinks	800	0.15	120.00
Plastic	100	0.90	90.00
Sugar	100	0.91	91.00
Sweets (Candy)	320	0.32	102.40
Toffee	100	0.89	89.00
Toys	800	0.14	112.00
Maize	100	0.85	85.00
Iron ore	100	1.00	100.00
Steel	100	1.00	100.00
Vehicles	40	0.75	30.00
Copper ore	100	1.00	100.00
Plastic	100	0.78	78.00
Rubber	100	1.00	100.00
Goods	200	0.70	140.00
Mail	400	0.33	132.00
Passengers	1600	0.15	240.00
Tourists	800	0.15	120.00
Paper	100	0.95	95.00
Tropic Wood	100	0.94	94.00
Wood	100	0.92	92.00
Wood products	100	0.98	98.00

[Patchman]

It would not in principle be hard to add a "volume" or "density" property to cargos, of course. Volume would probably be easier to handle. Fortunately adv.var.action 2 already supports getting the maximum of two values, so it wouldn't be a lot of work to change the plane refitting callback (e.g.) to cap either volume or weight.

[DaleStan]

We decided that for cargos not only the weight should be taken into account, but also a volume too. That should be right for airplanes too, I think.

Yes and no. Yes, planes do have a maximum volume, but filling that maximum volume without exceeding the maximum takeoff weight requires low-density cargos.
Rail cars, OTOH, can be filled to the brim with even very dense cargos without exceeding their safe weight rating.

(And your

Code: Select all

 block is well-nigh unreadable.)

[George]

(And your

Code: Select all

 block is well-nigh unreadable.)[/quote]First is value calculated your way, second is volume factor, third is adjusted capacity

[Grigory1]

Patchman, what maximal length of the list of purchases, and that at me it has ended on Potash?
Whether probably to increase till 64 lines?

[George]

Patchman, what maximal length of the list of purchases, and that at me it has ended on Potash?
Whether probably to increase till 64 lines?

I suppose it is 64 - would it be possible to have 256? Is it what you mean?

I strongly remind my suggestion about storing the last refit option as default

[T-pix]

What's wrong with planes titles?

According to screenshot on above - selected plane on my screenshot must be "Antonov An-124".

p.s.
frankly i have the same trouble with titles of busses from George's Longvehicle Set

[Maverick8]

you need to use the cht:resetvehicles sign cheat

as I have had that problem in the past and thats how I fixed it

[T-pix]

nothing changed

[George]

delete according dat file (vehicles.dat if I'm not mistaking)

[DaleStan]

Yes. vehicles.dat can do that.