New GRF
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New GRF
Do I still need to have a direction under the direction NewGRF, if a have the latest edition of OpenTTD,I have problems with industries Who d'nt accept cargo's or in the name of the Industry is mentioned <incorrect> but then in dutch ongeldig industrie
Is there somebody who can help me out
Is there somebody who can help me out
Re: New GRF
you may not change NewGRFs during a game. always start a new game.
Re: New GRF
Well, technically, you CAN change NewGRFs during a game. But, it's not recommended because bad things can (and usually do) happen. The least of which is graphical glitches, and the worst being it crashes your game entirely and you have to start all over from your last save point where things worked fine.
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Re: New GRF
Technically you are correct, but it should only be attempted if you know what you are doing.kamnet wrote:Well, technically, you CAN change NewGRFs during a game.
The OP obviously does not have much clue what happens. He tried it, ignored the text of the red error message window, and then asked here why his game crashed. Giving him contradicting messages is not very helpful.
We like to spread as simple rule to users that changing NewGRFs in a game should never be done. It is a simple rule, always works, and never gives problems like the disaster above.
Of course, people knowledgeable enough, or people that are willing to risk save games, limbs, sanity, or life, are free to do so on their own risk.
Re: New GRF
I think the problem with people changing grfs in running games comes from the warning being vague and not really telling you what the concequences are.
It says
The OP didn't complain about a crash. There was something wrong with cargo acceptance or something, which sounds nothing like the crashing it warns about.
I think, if you want people to stop ignoring it, the warning should say something like
It says
To me that implies that all that may happen is that it may crash, so when it doesn't crash you infer things are ok. It doesn't say it may break savegame compatibility or that less obvious things are likely to be broken which you might not even notice right away.You are about to make changes to a running game. This can crash openttd. Are you absolutely sure about this?
Yes..No
The OP didn't complain about a crash. There was something wrong with cargo acceptance or something, which sounds nothing like the crashing it warns about.
I think, if you want people to stop ignoring it, the warning should say something like
Or at least something that hints at some of the likely consequences other than a possible crash. I don't know what they all are, and only realise there are other consequences from hearing about them on the forum.Changing newgrfs in a running game will often result in unpredictable behavior, such as breaking save game compatibility, crashing, subtle problems you might not notice right away - basically it's likely to screw up your game and you'll have to go back to an old save. If you are not sure what you are doing you should not do this. Continue anyway?
- Voyager One
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Re: New GRF
Tell me about it - year 2045, after building the whole empire I decided to get the newest nigthly of a NewGRF. It didn't work properly and I have decided to reload the game with the older version - only to find that I've accidentaly saved it with the non-working version and there was no going back!Alberth wrote:people that are willing to risk save games... ...sanity
Sanity, you said it!
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Re: New GRF
The sign is in red, it is quite evident that it's important.Nommy wrote:Or at least something that hints at some of the likely consequences other than a possible crash.Changing newgrfs in a running game will often result in unpredictable behavior, such as breaking save game compatibility, crashing, subtle problems you might not notice right away - basically it's likely to screw up your game and you'll have to go back to an old save. If you are not sure what you are doing you should not do this. Continue anyway?
A red light is red, there's no warning, no text. and yet, we all know we must stop. No matter the reasons.
The text you propose will never be long enough to actually state all that could go wrong, and people willalways find stuff to complain about "I've not been told that" and blabla blablabla...
I understand the fat that only the crashing is mentioned, but that's because it's the most probable issue you'll face.
So at one point, you have to draw a line, for God Sake!
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- Voyager One
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Re: New GRF
Exactly the point we all said for a million times before: do it at your own risk and then don't complain about it!
There's nothing ambiguous about it.
There's nothing ambiguous about it.
Re: New GRF
There is something that just came to mind, to include NewGRF modules in savegames.
If I'm allowed to give you an example from another game, the World Editor from Warcraft 3 is actually a compressed file containing several files in it, each file takes an important aspect regarding how the map will work, like for example, an AI file, a trigger file, a script, a graphical file for new units or tiles, an object file, a map terrain, embedded sound files, etc... and a savegame is even more!
Have you considered this? This way, all savegames would become self-dependent!
But I know about the file size issue, that may be the biggest drawback.
If I'm allowed to give you an example from another game, the World Editor from Warcraft 3 is actually a compressed file containing several files in it, each file takes an important aspect regarding how the map will work, like for example, an AI file, a trigger file, a script, a graphical file for new units or tiles, an object file, a map terrain, embedded sound files, etc... and a savegame is even more!
Have you considered this? This way, all savegames would become self-dependent!
But I know about the file size issue, that may be the biggest drawback.
Re: New GRF
i'm fairly certain that this has been considered, and rejected, previously
Re: New GRF
The approach taken for BaNaNaS is a bit like this. In the savegame the GRF id:s are stored, using those even old version of NewGRFs can be downloaded from online content in order to satisfy the requirement of the savegame. See the attachment for an example where I have a savegame with a missing NewGRF that can be found fairly automatically on bananas.
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My OpenTTD contributions (AIs, Game Scripts, patches, OpenTTD Auto Updater, and some sprites)
Junctioneer (a traffic intersection simulator)
Junctioneer (a traffic intersection simulator)
Re: New GRF
My Load Game doesn't have this...Zuu wrote:The approach taken for BaNaNaS is a bit like this. In the savegame the GRF id:s are stored, using those even old version of NewGRFs can be downloaded from online content in order to satisfy the requirement of the savegame. See the attachment for an example where I have a savegame with a missing NewGRF that can be found fairly automatically on bananas.
OpenTTD 1.0.4
Re: New GRF
That's because it got recently introduced. It'll be part of 1.1
Re: New GRF
If you want to have the last developments (and bugs) you can try out the nightlies. On www.openttd.org, below the link to stable download there is a link to last nightly. When you get bored of downloading new nightlies every now and then, you can get an OpenTTD Updater that does the manual work for you. (or write your own, a basic updater is fairly simple to write - especially on if you have a basic unix toolset at your hand)
My OpenTTD contributions (AIs, Game Scripts, patches, OpenTTD Auto Updater, and some sprites)
Junctioneer (a traffic intersection simulator)
Junctioneer (a traffic intersection simulator)
Re: New GRF
How is this implemented in the scenario editor?
It seems like all NewGRF's gets locked when you start the scenario editor and cant be changed when you start playing the scenario. Bug or feature? I can understand if buildings and industrial GFS's gets locked, but what about trains, planes and trucks?
It seems like all NewGRF's gets locked when you start the scenario editor and cant be changed when you start playing the scenario. Bug or feature? I can understand if buildings and industrial GFS's gets locked, but what about trains, planes and trucks?
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Re: New GRF
Disallowing the change of newgrfs after starting the game is by design. NewGRFs are an integral part of the map. That holds also for vehicles.
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Re: New GRF
So if I want to play a scenario with two different train-sets.. I have to redo the entire scenario from the beginning?planetmaker wrote:Disallowing the change of newgrfs after starting the game is by design. NewGRFs are an integral part of the map. That holds also for vehicles.
I think some kind of manual override is needed, otherwise it will kill a lot of the fun with making new scenarios.
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Re: New GRF
You can, if you select them both when creating the scenarion. Any other tampering DURING the game is risky.OSkar000 wrote:So if I want to play a scenario with two different train-sets.. I have to redo the entire scenario from the beginning?
Re: New GRF
I understand the risks, I have played OpenTTD since 0.3 or 0.4 and experiensed both successful and unsuccessful grf-changes in games and scenarios.Voyager1 wrote:You can, if you select them both when creating the scenarion. Any other tampering DURING the game is risky.OSkar000 wrote:So if I want to play a scenario with two different train-sets.. I have to redo the entire scenario from the beginning?
What I want to be able to do is to create a scenario without deciding what GRFs its going to be played with and not have to create a new scenario every time a new interesting trainset, planeset, bus, truck is released. I can understand that GRFs that are included in the scenario (buildings, industries, trees etc.) is locked and shouldn't be changed. But content that won't be in the game until you start playing should be changable (at your own risk) until you load the scenario to start playing on it.
- planetmaker
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Re: New GRF
It usually kills my fun when every day there's a new bug report of <whatever> going wrong and then only to find out that the person changed newgrf after map creation.OSkar000 wrote:I think some kind of manual override is needed, otherwise it will kill a lot of the fun with making new scenarios.planetmaker wrote:Disallowing the change of newgrfs after starting the game is by design. NewGRFs are an integral part of the map. That holds also for vehicles.
use set scenario_developer 1 in the console and your control over newgrfs is back. Then all warranty is void though (as if there's been some in the first place ). If you can avoid to change NewGRFs, then do it by all means. Even changing vehicle grfs in the scenario editor does compromise the game and has the potential to introduce quite a bit of unwanted behaviour.
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