FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development

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planetmaker
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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development & Translatio

Post by planetmaker »

ChillCore wrote: How many economy types will there be?

Also, will there be tweaking in different production rates somewhere in the future.
By this I mean easy, medium and hard. (Perhaps activated by parameter instead of by game difficulty setting.)
I'd recommend to not rely on difficulty settings at all anyway. They're somewhat pointless as there's lots of ways to influence difficulty which is not affected by the difficulty settings, some difficulty settings actually work the other way around than presented in the settings: higher inflation rate makes the game _easier_ instead of more difficult, provided inflation is turned on at all.

Though I'm not andy, still an attempt at an answer derived from our discussions:
The amount of economies depends on two things: time which needs to be spend on implementing it but also on the amount of feedback and the detailed-ness of the suggestions for economies. If the cargo chains and their implications have been thought-through and this thought process is also presented with a detailed list of in and out industries, things become easier :-) There'll always be the "everything in FIRS" economy which is basically what we have now.

Currently the principle influence of economies is on the availability of the industries. But... many things are possible, it's "just" a matter of how much work for how much gain it is :-)
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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development & Translatio

Post by andythenorth »

ChillCore wrote:How many economy types will there be?
Approximately 9 is my guess. Could be less.
Something like:
- Everything
- Basic
- Alternative basic (different cargos)
- Farming
- Mining
- Urban
- Heavy Industry
- Island / Seafaring
- Logging

Economies will adjust cargo payment rates, the map probabilities of industry, and perhaps the primary production.
Some economies will add a couple of bonus industries or cargos.
Also, will there be tweaking in different production rates somewhere in the future.
Not for secondary industry.
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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development & Translatio

Post by ChillCore »

planetmaker wrote:
ChillCore wrote: How many economy types will there be?

Also, will there be tweaking in different production rates somewhere in the future.
By this I mean easy, medium and hard. (Perhaps activated by parameter instead of by game difficulty setting.)
I'd recommend to not rely on difficulty settings at all anyway.
Good idea.
planetmaker wrote: Though I'm not andy, still an attempt at an answer derived from our discussions:
The amount of economies depends on two things: time which needs to be spend on implementing it but also on the amount of feedback and the detailed-ness of the suggestions for economies. If the cargo chains and their implications have been thought-through and this thought process is also presented with a detailed list of in and out industries, things become easier :-) There'll always be the "everything in FIRS" economy which is basically what we have now.

Currently the principle influence of economies is on the availability of the industries. But... many things are possible, it's "just" a matter of how much work for how much gain it is :-)
Detailed and thought-through is important, yes.
Some time ago, when I was bored one day, I started inventing a corgoset on paper but I did not get very far. It became too complicated too fast and I gave up because of to many other things drawing my attention. Instead helping here and there on something that is already started, and very advanced already if may add, might prove more productive, but not less complicated. :)
andythenorth wrote:
ChillCore wrote: How many economy types will there be?
Approximately 9 is my guess. Could be less.
...
(list)
Cool, that will indeed make it easier to come up with suggestions.
andythenorth wrote: Economies will adjust cargo payment rates, the map probabilities of industry, and perhaps the primary production.
Some economies will add a couple of bonus industries or cargos.
Yummie, variety, bonus ... me likes what I read.
andythenorth wrote:
ChillCore wrote: Also, will there be tweaking in different production rates somewhere in the future.
Not for secondary industry.
OK.
-- .- -.-- / - .... . / ..-. --- .-. -.-. . / -... . / .-- .. - .... / -.-- --- ..- .-.-.-
--- .... / -.-- . .- .... --..-- / .- -. -.. / .--. .-. .- .. ... . / - .... . / .-.. --- .-. -.. / ..-. --- .-. / .... . / --. .- ...- . / ..- ... / -.-. .... --- --- -.-. .... --- --- ... .-.-.- / ---... .--.

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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development & Translatio

Post by id10terror »

How easy do you want the suggestion list for the basic economy, i keep trying to construct a detailed one but each time i find myself including building supplies and manufacturing supplies and these might be considered difficult. So is the 'Basic FIRS' Easy FIRS? whats your opinion? I included what i have been working on so far, but mainly so people can throw stones at me if i have borked it.
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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development & Translatio

Post by andythenorth »

id10terror wrote:How easy do you want the suggestion list for the basic economy
FIRS Basic should be 'easy to learn'. Not necessarily 'easy to play'.

It needs to be interestingly different from default game, but not overwhelming.

I thought building materials might be in, it's an end cargo for some good chains. And it might in future be used for town growth.

Manufacturing Supplies can probably stay in. They introduce the supplies concept in a gradual way. Also removing them will mean quite a lot of custom work to change production code and text strings (and translations).
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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development & Translatio

Post by Dante123 »

maybe i nice suggestion:
all industries of the same time have the same default production now ? (all cattle farms always have 90 cattle)
maybe put some random factor in here ?
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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development & Translatio

Post by ChillCore »

Hey andythenorth,
How does this look as a first draft? It needs more finetuning and there could be some misstakes still.
I want to do the same based on industries to compare afterwards and finetune some more.

Would you mind explaining a bit where you would like to go with the Island / Seafaring economy. I mean on what should it focus, apart from fishing and ships? Coconuts ? :P

Also is this page up to date?
http://tt-foundry.com/sets/FIRS/schema/economies
Aluminium is marked as deprecated but the Aluminium plant is not (for 5.0). What industry list should one use?
Attachments
Only focusses on availability of cargos per economy type.
Only focusses on availability of cargos per economy type.
unfinisched_FIRS_economies.png (50.63 KiB) Viewed 494 times
-- .- -.-- / - .... . / ..-. --- .-. -.-. . / -... . / .-- .. - .... / -.-- --- ..- .-.-.-
--- .... / -.-- . .- .... --..-- / .- -. -.. / .--. .-. .- .. ... . / - .... . / .-.. --- .-. -.. / ..-. --- .-. / .... . / --. .- ...- . / ..- ... / -.-. .... --- --- -.-. .... --- --- ... .-.-.- / ---... .--.

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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development & Translatio

Post by lugo »

Aluminium as a cargo is deprecated.
Aluminium plants and steel mills now produce 'metal'.
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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development & Translatio

Post by ChillCore »

Thank you lugo for explaining.
Welcome to the forums.
-- .- -.-- / - .... . / ..-. --- .-. -.-. . / -... . / .-- .. - .... / -.-- --- ..- .-.-.-
--- .... / -.-- . .- .... --..-- / .- -. -.. / .--. .-. .- .. ... . / - .... . / .-.. --- .-. -.. / ..-. --- .-. / .... . / --. .- ...- . / ..- ... / -.-. .... --- --- -.-. .... --- --- ... .-.-.- / ---... .--.

Playing with my patchpack? Ask questions on usage and report bugs in the correct thread first, please.
All included patches have been modified and are no longer 100% original.
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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development & Translatio

Post by goalie »

HI is it possible to use FIRS with ttdpatch?

i was away for 3 years please help me
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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development & Translatio

Post by planetmaker »

goalie wrote:HI is it possible to use FIRS with ttdpatch?

i was away for 3 years please help me
It's unfortunately not (yet). It uses more industry slots than available.
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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development & Translatio

Post by Eddi »

Dante123 wrote:maybe i nice suggestion:
all industries of the same time have the same default production now ? (all cattle farms always have 90 cattle)
maybe put some random factor in here ?
I believe that was once an OpenTTD bug, but i thought that there had been attempts to fix that.
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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development & Translatio

Post by mamadoo »

It is my first time at this forum... I am really amazed with firs industry set. But I have a question (I coul not find an answer on this forum)
Is there any train set that can fully cooperate with firs?
For example: I haven't found cars that can carry scrap metal. I have found one usefull extension: bauxite cars - this gives more possibilities but still there are some cargos that can't be transported.
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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development & Translatio

Post by andythenorth »

mamadoo wrote:It is my first time at this forum... I am really amazed with firs industry set. But I have a question (I coul not find an answer on this forum)


NARS 2, UKRS 2, 2CC train set, maybe others.
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planetmaker
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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development & Translatio

Post by planetmaker »

FIRS is my main reason to have started OpenGFX+ Trains ;-)
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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development & Translatio

Post by el koeno »

One thing I'd like for the Basic flavour is not to mix the chains to much. So each producer of primary products (e.g. farms, mines) would linked to one type of processing plant. The idea is it would reduce complexity, and the confusion it might lead to. So you wouldn't need to bring one farm's products to two different factories (which happens to be one of my pet peeves), and you wouldn't have to decide where to bring goods: they go to one place like in vanilla TTD.

So you'd have a couple of separate chains, that introduce the kind of chains found in the more advanced flavours. I.e. focus fully on adding diversity (compared to the vanilla industries) rather than complexity. (This might not be entirely possible if you plan to use manufacturing supplies, but it might be interesting to leave in some complex ideas.)

The exact industries included doesn't matter too much in this case, and would be kind of dependent on what is convenient/interesting for you to put in.
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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development & Translatio

Post by michael blunck »

Ogre wrote: May I suggest "Geräte und Werkzeuge" for engineering supplies. [...]
That´s better than the current "Ersatzteile", but still not correct.

engineering supplies -> "Industriebedarf" would be the correct technical term. ("Geräte und Werkzeuge" being only a sub-category, namely "tools")

and for

production supplies (currently "Produktionsgüter") -> it´s "Fertigungsbedarf". Although, but especially in accounting, "Hilfs- und Betriebsstoffe" resp "Hilfs- und Betriebsmittel" is used as well.

regards
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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development & Translatio

Post by etran »

Heres Serbian translation :]

Keep up the good work :bow:
Cheers!
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Serbian translation
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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development & Translatio

Post by Kerygma »

michael blunck wrote: Abfallhalde - gives 11,200 hits, but "Müllkippe" gives 111,000.
I would suggest "Deponie" or "Mülldeponie". Sounds better imho and gives even more hits.
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