whats the prefect load weigh for the Kirby Paul Tank?

[aplaneisfinetoo]

I know there are examples on how to figure this out myself and I have tried to understand them I must have stared blankly at the tractive force page for a hour or more on multipliable site visits . I can't do it apparently so maybe someone can solve the Kirby Paul Tank for me and show me how that was done? I'll do the rest myself XD

Cost Speed Weight Power
£8,203 ($16.462) 64 km/h (40 mph) weight 47 t 300 hp (223 kW)
Running Costs / year Designed Lifespan Capacity
£820 ($1.640) 1925 15 years N/A

I'm using imperial measurements, please try not to over complicate it.

I consider the prefect load to be the max weight the engine can move with the least penalty to acceleration/max speed.

[Arie-]

There's this TTD/TTDPatch/OpenTTD acceleration power calculator online somewhere, but I currently have troubles locating that thing.

edit:
forum post 1 with an example: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=751674#p751674

[aplaneisfinetoo]

i've seen that post and its not helpful to me thanks anyway

[michael blunck]

i've seen that post and its not helpful to me thanks anyway

So what exactly is your question? Please, rephrase. There´s no "official" value for tractive effort for the "Kirby Paul".

regards
Michael

[hetemaj]

I think he wants to know maximum train weight to reach the max speed of the train (64km/h) on flat terrain or some other target speed on a uphill slope. "Realistic acceleration" option turned on, I think.

I used to have a openoffice spread sheet to calculate max train weight but I can't find it now...

[michael blunck]

I think he wants to know maximum train weight to reach the max speed of the train (64km/h) on flat terrain or some other target speed on a uphill slope. "Realistic acceleration" option turned on, I think.

Well, yes. Then, this could be well achieved by following the steps explained in the post mentioned above (slightly rearrange the formulas).

OTOH, current implementation of "realistic acceleration" in OTTD seems to be (still) buggy, i.e. trains are way too fast uphill in comparison to TTDPatch. See post of Uwe in the German tt-forums including a patch against this behaviour.

regards
Michael

[aplaneisfinetoo]

Hetemaj has it right I'm simply looking for how to using the information provided by the game to choose engines.

Rather then know the total weight of the whole train and choose a engine that way I would like to be able to know how much work the engines can do.

Its all well and good to be realistic but it would be even better if this information was presented for the player. After all we are talking about a game here. Those of you that think calculations are part of the skill of the game why don't we just go ahead and take all the number crunching , calenders, graphs, charts, and maps out of the game and you can go and write all that information down in pencil instead.

I'm sure someone could at least give us a small entry in the manual under each train stating what sort of weight loads it can move without to much penalization I would be happy to do this if I could only be taught to do it.

[Alberth]

I have no idea about these numbers (I just pick whatever looks most powerful for what I am prepared to pay), but instead of computing, why not do a few simple experiments?

Lay a long track, hook some heavy wagons after the engine, and see how fast it is.

[michael blunck]

I have no idea about these numbers (I just pick whatever looks most powerful for what I am prepared to pay), but instead of computing, why not do a few simple experiments?

Lay a long track, hook some heavy wagons after the engine, and see how fast it is.

Wow! A Déja-vu.

I told the guy that he doesn´t have to "calculate". The only thing needed to know is that there´s a difference between a freight and a passenger locomotive w/r to tractive effort and speed. Other members told him to carry out experiments, but he insisted the game should supply some form of "table" for each locomotive.

Well, for the DB Set, Uwe already made such "tables" (included in his DBSet guide):

weight table.png (9.66 KiB) Viewed 3718 times

Something like this ...

regards
Michael

[Alberth]

I have no idea about these numbers (I just pick whatever looks most powerful for what I am prepared to pay), but instead of computing, why not do a few simple experiments?

Lay a long track, hook some heavy wagons after the engine, and see how fast it is.

Wow! A Déja-vu.

Nice

@aplaneisfinetoo:
As far as I know, the game does not have such a table, and instead simply iteratively updates the current speed and position of a train based on the slopes, weights, track layout, and current settings (train acceleration, slope steepness, weight multiplier), and perhaps a few other settings.

In other words, such a number says nothing. The amount of engine power that you need depends on a lot more factors. What is optimal for a flat track, is useless in hilly terrain. It is impossible to give a single number that always works optimally (for whatever notion of optimal you have, since "...the prefect load to be the max weight the engine can move with the least penalty to acceleration/max speed..." is obviously 0 ton cargo, anything above that will increase the penalty).

Even if you would add a table for the default engines, it would not have tables for all the NewGRF engines.

[aplaneisfinetoo]

I'm pretty sure there has to be a happy medium there somewhere. This topic is getting somewhat ridiculous with so many claims of complexity and mentioning that any load is going to slow the train so trying to figure it out is pointless blah blah blah.

Thats all bull, engines are made to work and they can preform so much work up to a point when its performance degrades to a unsatisfactory level.

Lets just skip the math I'm not particularly fond of the Kirby Paul I only chose it because being one of the first trains I thought someone would know.

How about some opinions? Surely someone can say what they feel is a reasonable load for the engine.

[michael blunck]

I'm pretty sure there has to be a happy medium there somewhere. This topic is getting somewhat ridiculous with so many claims of complexity and mentioning that any load is going to slow the train so trying to figure it out is pointless blah blah blah.

Thats all bull, engines are made to work and they can preform so much work up to a point when its performance degrades to a unsatisfactory level.
[...]

EOD

Michael

[andythenorth]

How about some opinions? Surely someone can say what they feel is a reasonable load for the engine.

5 coal wagons.

[aplaneisfinetoo]

thanks andy so thats lets see 287 tons including the weight of the engine if fully loaded