[32bpp] File repository - debugging the release candidate

[Jupix]

This thread is for archival purposes - please post here to continue discussion on this topic


OK, let's start testing the repo.

It's located at http://jupix.info/openttd/gfxdev-repo/

Quick notes on the ins and outs of it,

How to add files.

First, you need a read/write account, so you need to register.

Once you have - log in. Select category. Enable editing mode. Fill form, submit, done.

Sprites or .blends, whatever the upload, it needs to be zipped up. Screenshots need to be .png or .jpg.

How to remove files.

You can only remove your own files.

Log in. Select category. Click on file ID. Enable editing mode. Click "delete file".

How to update files.

You can only revise your own files. (If you want to take over a piece of work, create another entry for it.)

Log in. Select category. Click on file ID. Enable editing mode. Fill form, submit, done.

Possible types of update:
- Update notes only. Will not increment version number or date.
- Update file. Will increment version number automatically and refresh notes and the file date.
- Add or Update screenshot. Will not increment version number or date, will refresh notes.

How to add categories

Only operators (me) can do that

Version numbering

So basically, we're talking about constantly growing and maturing content, so it's pretty pointless to tack on "0.9" or "2.1" or such to our stuff. Still, we need some sort of version numbering to keep tabs on whether we are looking at the latest content. Therefore the repo uses a simple integer, starting from one, and automatically increments that each time a file is revised. So versions will go 1, 2, 3, and so on as content is updated.


So let's try it out for some time (couple of days maybe?) and see if there are any huge showstopper bugs in it. Once we've deemed it worthy, I'll wipe it clean and post a new thread about it in this forum and we can start directing artists there.

Comments! Bug reports! Yes please.

[GeekToo]

I tried to create an account, but when I press the go to TT-forums button, it takes me there, I'm not logged in, though I was logged in in another tab, and I don't have an activation PM.

http://www.tt-forums.net/ucp.php?i=pm&m ... ction=post is the page it sends me to.

/edit, in fact it has successfully logged me out of TT-forums , when I refresh the tab I was logged in on TT-forums

[Jupix]

So when you click "go to tt-forums", I take it it presents you with a login form? When you log in using that form, has it preserved the message?

[GeekToo]

Yes, it presents a login form, where I logged in
No, it's just an empty compose PM screen

[Jupix]

Damn. Then we need to find out why you were logged out. That doesn't happen on my end, with XP and Firefox 3. Can you try again in a new browser session? And maybe in another browser?

Also, I would be interested in hearing if this happens to anyone else.

[GeekToo]

I use Firefox 3.0.6 on Windows XP pro. I'll try a new session, back in a minute

[cmoiromain]

If you want to know why the devs aren't in favour of the 32bpp graphics, I suggest you read the thread about the pak 96 comic in the simutrans forum.

[GeekToo]

Restarted Firefox, same result.

[Jupix]

Can you try -shudder- IE?

(log in at tt-forums, register at repo using the same credentials, see if tt-forums still shows you as logged out)

[GeekToo]

Yeah, I already tried with IE , same result.

Also tried without using the proxy of my ISP, so direct connection, same result.

I don't know if it is important, but I used a different password on the repo than on the TT-forums.

[Jupix]

OK, I've reproduced it in IE. Not sure what causes it though.

The password is completely separate from what you have at tt-forums, so doesn't matter what you put in.


Hmm, an idea, do you have "log me on automatically each visit" on at tt-forums? (Ticking that fixed it for me, makes sense, since it creates a cookie.)

[GeekToo]

Ok, that did the trick, now I can submit the PM to myself.
Next problem: clicking the link does give an: Invalid activation key response on the repo site

/edit: after clicking it again after a couple of minutes, it worked. Seems like the server needs a little time to recognize the key.

[Jupix]

Try again now?

It doesn't need considerable time to recognize activation keys - there was a bug which caused the repo to generate a new activation key every time a user tried to register, without updating it to the database.

It should now be always sending the first key it has generated. (And for you, I updated the key in the database so that I recognized it correctly.)

[GeekToo]

I did, it works, I edited my last message.

[Jupix]

Edited also.

I added a note about the "always log me in" option - I think it always needs to be ticked for the repo registration to work. So that's 2 issues solved so far.

[GeekToo]

First question about the uploads: wouldn't it be better to also allow tars iso zips?

[Jupix]

Hmm, hadn't thought of that. Sensible idea. Done.

[Moriarty]

Jupix, looks interesting, some suggestions (scarily long list, sorry, it's a knack ):

- Skip the "guest:guest" login and just auto-login as guest. Similarly with the logout being there if you're only a guest.

- It seems to require use of the back-button for navigation, rather than having links.

- Personally, when I click the name of the object I don't expect it to start downloading, but to take me to the info. Maybe have a link that says "download" for the link to the content. I.e.

Code: Select all

5[links to info]    temperate grass[links to info]    (download) [links to download

- When creating a new account, it's not actually clear what the process is doing or why it's being done. Why is it dealing with PM messages? To ensure the user is a tt-user? It's not too clear right now what the process is about, it confuzzled me (though did work when I decided to press the button ).
Maybe ask owen to if there's a way to make an exception to your website on the spam filter or something.

- Logged in, there's an "edit" next to the "categories" at the top, but this does nothing.

- The "edit" in the categories should probably say "add new file" as there's not actual editing of any existing content.
Similarly there is an edit button when viewing someone elses content, even though I can't edit it.

- For file type, where it says "source", "spites" etc, I'm not sure if those are what the things are normally called (if so, ignore this), but I'd be more inclined toward: "3d model" and "texture"

But it does look nice. How does someone actually edit current content to upload a newer version?

[Jupix]

Thanks for the compliments ,

- Skip the "guest:guest" login and just auto-login as guest. Similarly with the logout being there if you're only a guest.

I'm afraid this would require quite a thorough rewrite of its authentication/session system.

- It seems to require use of the back-button for navigation, rather than having links.

Depends, really - in category view, you can go "up" and "down" in the category tree with built in navigation links, and everywhere else, you can always start over by clicking the top "logo", which points to the index (except in the index - we all know self-linking is bad).

Also, a point: why do browsers have back buttons?

- Personally, when I click the name of the object I don't expect it to start downloading, but to take me to the info. Maybe have a link that says "download"

I battled with this myself. On one hand, I like the current logic of it. On the other, I realized the possible bizarreness of the UI in that respect. I thought about changing it, but neglected to do so. I could be persuaded to rewrite the file lists...

- When creating a new account, it's not actually clear what the process is doing or why it's being done. Why is it dealing with PM messages? To ensure the user is a tt-user? It's not too clear right now what the process is about, it confuzzled me (though did work when I decided to press the button ).

The PM part of the registration is indeed in place solely for the purpose of weeding out those without accounts here. (I wrote about this above the link that takes you into the registration PM.)

Basically, it's 4-part process, starting with the registration form:

#1 SERVER: does nothing yet
#1 CLIENT: inputs username&password

#2 SERVER: saves username & password into user database as an inactive account, generates and saves an activation key
#2 CLIENT: is requested to click the PM link. Clicks the link.

#3 SERVER: a FORM (POST) sends three INPUT (HIDDEN)'s to the tt-forums PM module. They contain the recipient (you), subject and message body.
#3 CLIENT: clicks the activation link

#4 SERVER: gets the activation details from $_GET. Compares to database. If correct, activates the account, logs the registration and fills in a login form.
#4 CLIENT: can now login.

Back in the days of phpBB2, when I first used this method of 3rd party account verification with phpBB, it actually succeeded in sending the PM and it was rather a clever system. Now there are some hardcoded and pretty solid measures in place in phpBB to sniff when incoming data is actually from the forum itself. I did some research and it appears they were introduced pretty recently, it could be that this would work flawlessly with some earlier versions of phpBB3.

Anyway, I'm quite satisfied personally with how this works, bearing in mind it is a really useful thing to have even if it is slightly cumbersome to the user.

Maybe ask owen to if there's a way to make an exception to your website on the spam filter or something.

There is, but it requires digging into source code and commenting out some stuff - I'd rather he not have to do that.

- Logged in, there's an "edit" next to the "categories" at the top, but this does nothing.
- The "edit" in the categories should probably say "add new file" as there's not actual editing of any existing content.
Similarly there is an edit button when viewing someone elses content, even though I can't edit it.

Now, this is to do with the "edit mode" philosophy of the... edit mode.

I don't know if you noticed, but when you click "edit" in the front page, you are in edit mode in the category and file pages as well.

Basically, the site can be browsed in two modes: normal, and edit mode. In the former, you have a pretty much identical UI to the guest:guest login. You can browse, but cannot change anything. In the latter, you get form fields to edit everything you have clearance to. (In the case of the category view in the front page, nothing.)

I've thought about moving the normal-/editmode links next to the logout link to make the distinction clearer. Let me know what you think.

- For file type, where it says "source", "spites" etc, I'm not sure if those are what the things are normally called (if so, ignore this), but I'd be more inclined toward: "3d model" and "texture"

As I understand it, .blend files and their proprietary cousins are basically text files with coordinates and identification for 3D shapes (well, 2D planes for constructing 3D shapes), and texturing info. So basically, in layman's terms, it's "source code" for a 3D object. That's the rationale for my calling .blends "source".

Again, this is something I've thought about before, and decided against "3D model", "model file" or such, because those made me think it was the source including textures, which this specific option should not include.

How does someone actually edit current content to upload a newer version?

Navigate to a file in edit mode and fill out the form, including the optional bits. You'll figure it out. (And remember you can only update files where you are the owner.)

[TrueBrain]

Well, TrueBrain replied and stated "OpenTTD does not offer 3rd party hosting". Which seems very odd given this is an OTTD subproject so I wouldn't call it 3rd Party.

It appears none of the devs are actually interested in 32bit graphics at present (doesn't look like any are reading this thread after all). The cards really do seem stacked against this particular branch.

Suggestions?

It is very nice to read that Moriarty completely fails to read my PM completely, and only picks out the part that seems to matter to him. Sad. You try to help someone, and this is the thanks he gives you. But okay. I will now post on a for-all-to-read place what was said. Maybe than others can explain to Moriarty that he should not put words out of context.

This project is 3rd party. There is no other term for it. There is no developer involved, which doesn't make it 1st party. I have no idea where Moriarty comes up with the idea that it would be odd. Simple definitions. That where no developer is part of, is 3rd party.

OpenTTD has the policy not to allow 3rd party hosting, unless some developer is behind it (so far all those projects became 1st party and are now part of OpenTTD mainstream). So, if you want that, join IRC (irc.oftc.net, #openttd), and talk to developers there. Get some of them behind the project, and let them make a request for hosting. That is how things work, that is how things should be done. Don't expect any developer to read through a 5 page long topic of a subject they don't really care about, and read that something is going on one of the last pages. Give it to them. Present it. Make your case. Don't say: look at this url. No: PRESENT IT! MAKE YOUR CASE! Make a story! And not via the forum, not via PM, but do it via IRC. That is direct communication. That is a method that works. That is active. What Moriarty so far tried is a rather passive approach. Put effort in your communication to developers. Make their life easy. They are overloaded with OpenTTD related work as it is.

So, as I said in my first reply to the request of Moriarty, one big suggestion to you guys: join IRC and talk to developers!!! This makes the 4th time I say this related to this project (twice in a PM to Moriarty, and twice in this post), so I hope it now finally works. This is my last effort to help you guys in the right direction. I have been active in this community long enough to know what I am talking about. Maybe one of you is more open to this suggestion than Moriarty appears to be.

Either way, best of luck with this project, I really hope you get somewhere

(For the record: my current function within OpenTTD is only System Operator. I have no active developer role. So I am not a person you need to convince )