Another Subsidy Problem

[Qu@rks]

This is exactly what many people have been complaining about and no real solution has been proposed so far.

I built a route between the two cities (and yes, it's really these two) and have two trains operating but no success in getting the subsidy. And no clue why this happens either.

Savegame is attached, version is 0.6.3

[supermatt]

I did a bunch of tests on your problem and I think it has something to do with the station's proximity to industries. Here are the tests I did, with different combination of stations:

-Attached bus line to original train stations: Did not get subsidy from buses.
-Attached bus station at Hedingtown and new station at Donnbridge: Did not get it.
-Attached bus station at Donnbridge and new station at Hedingtown, station near farm: Got it.
-Two new bus stations, with Hedingtown station near farm: Got it.
-Two new bus stations, with Hedingtown station near farm AND attached truck station: Got it.**

-Performed same tests with airlines, with same results ONLY when the new Hedingtown airport was far from the farm.
-When the new Hedingtown airport was near the farm, I did not get the subsidy not matter what station in Donnbridge it came from.

-Deleted train stations and put them exactly where they were after the grey signs went away: Still did not get it.
-Completely separate train line with new Hedingtown station near farm: Did not get it.
-Completely separate train line with new Hedingtown station far from farm: Got it.
-Original train station at Donnbridge and new train station at Hedingtown far from farm: Got it.
-New station near steel mill north of Donnbridge (but still close to the city) and new station far from farm: Did NOT get it.
-Removed original Hedingtown station, waited for gray sign to disappear, replaced one platform so station catchment area did not hit the farm but the station still relatively close to the farm: Did NOT get it.

Conclusion: A station with the capacity to load freight sufficiently close to an industry, regardless if it services that industry or not, will not earn the company a passenger subsidy when using that station.

** This is the only case that did not follow my theory. However, even though the bus/truck station can service freight, the bus can never serve freight, so it still could get the subsidy.

I would appreciate confirmation or disapproval of my theory.

[Rubidium]

Your station, that is the station 'flag', needs to be within 9 tiles of the city center, that is the town 'flag'.

[Qu@rks]

I didn't know about the station flag having to be close to the town center. I thought it was just the station that had to be close... I just experimented a bit and I actually did get the subsidy with the station flag closer to the town center.

I must say that I find this behavior very weird and would like to have this fixed, if possible, so that it is only the station that has to be close to the town center, not the station flag. Should I add an extra thread in the suggestions forum for this or is it unlikely that this gets changed?

[Alberth]

You can create a suggestion thread, but I don't think it would add much compared to this thread. Besides, we already have one (namely Leniency for station-building).

Imho it would be much better if we'd improve the definition of delivering goods/passengers/mail to a town. Later in the game towns have grown, making it quite impossible to get anything within 9 tiles from the town center. However, a player should be able to get a subsidy at that time too.

Do you have an idea of an improved definition so we can get rid of the 9 tiles limit? That would solve both problems in one go.

[Qu@rks]

That's right, the 9 tiles would indeed solve the problem. The limit shouldn't be removed completely, though, because you could then basically deliver the passengers to any station on the map that is not built on tiles with a local authority...

And the thread you posted asks for something different

[Alberth]

That's right, the 9 tiles would indeed solve the problem. The limit shouldn't be removed completely, though, because you could then basically deliver the passengers to any station on the map that is not built on tiles with a local authority...

Indeed, we need something else. Until now I haven't seen a better decision mechanism. Without it, the problem cannot be fixed.

And the thread you posted asks for something different

No, not really. It asks for the right to destroy (part of) the town in order to enable building close enough to the town center.
When we are able to lift the 9 tile limitation, the need for this feature will also vanish.

Edit: Improve wording

[cirdan]

Towns already have the concept of a "town radius". It impacts, for instance, town growth: the more stations recently serviced in a town, the faster the town grows, and a station is considered to be in the town if its distance from the town center is less than this radius (which is computed based on the number of houses). It should be trivial to change the subsidy code to accept a station for a subsidy if its distance from the town center is either less than 9 or less than this radius.

[Qu@rks]

Did you read the posts between my question and the last post? The "problem" is already solved, we were talking about making a suggestion...

[cirdan]

Yes, I did. And I was trying to make the point that such a suggestion would be easy to implement. Apparently, I failed.

[Alberth]

I think replacing the 9 tile limit by a town radius limit would be a very useful alternative solution.

[cirdan]

There you go (warning: untested).