German translation

[Roujin]

+STR_NEWGRF_ERROR_UNKNOWN_PROPERTY :Unbekannte Eigenschaft von Aktion 0

I am against translating newGrf terms like action and property. Users that are not into newGrfs won't understand this message in any way, and users knowing newGrf surely use the terms action and property and not translations of these words into their native language.

What about: "NewGRF Fehler: 'Unknown Action 0 property.'"?

Either like this, or translate the 'unknown' into 'unbekannte', because that's not a term with a specific meaning in terms of newgrf - but then it sounds a bit like a weird mixture of both languages.. "Unbekannte Action 0 property."

[michael blunck]

Shouldn´t it read "Fahre ..." instead of "Gehe ..." in train schedules?

regards
Michael

[sulai]

Shouldn´t it read "Fahre ..." instead of "Gehe ..." in train schedules?

regards
Michael

But Airplanes "fliegen"?

New String:
STR_SORT_BY_LIFE_TIME
"Verbleibende Betriebsdauer"?

Grüße,
sulai

[Eddi]

"fahren" vs. "fliegen" ... am i the only person having a déjà vu about that?

but it gets even worse... a Zeppelin, while being an air vehicle, "fährt"

"lifetime" is translated as "Lebensdauer" elsewhere already.

[MasterNnja]

There is also some inconsistency in using the terms "Güter" and "Waren" for goods.
While "Güter" keeps closer to the original in terms of word origin, I think "Waren" fits better...

Also I would think "Waren" is just a subgroup of "Güter", which would include everything except passengers, but perhaps that's just my personal taste.

[sulai]

I think "Waren" fits better... Also I would think "Waren" is just a subgroup of "Güter", which would include everything except passengers

I think you are right. The strings in question are these:

STR_LIVERY_FREIGHT_WAGON :Güterwaggon
STR_8020_GOODS_VAN :Güterwaggon
STR_803E_GOODS_VAN :Güterwaggon
STR_808A_BALOGH_GOODS_TRUCK :Balogh Gütertransporter
STR_808B_CRAIGHEAD_GOODS_TRUCK :Craighead Gütertransporter
STR_808C_GOSS_GOODS_TRUCK :Goss Gütertransporter

"Warentransporter" sounds nice, while "Warenwaggon" is strange from the sound of the word...

Hey guys! Have a look at these statistics!! http://translator2.openttd.org/languages/GlobalStat

[Eddi]

"Warentransporter"?? are you nuts?

[sulai]

"Warentransporter" seems to be the more accurate translation. Google has more hits for "Warentransporter" than for "Gütertransporter". This doesn't mean it's "right" or "better". It's an option.

[dihedral]

call DB and ask what they call it!
if there are 'real' words we should not be making words up to suit what we think sounds better

as far as i am conncerned those things on trains are called gueterwaggon

[planetmaker]

call DB and ask what they call it!
if there are 'real' words we should not be making words up to suit what we think sounds better

as far as i am conncerned those things on trains are called gueterwaggon

DB or respectively its subsidy RailIon calls it "Güterwagen". Find the list of all availabe "Güterwagen" at their website: http://www.stinnes-freight-logistics.de ... index.html

Regards,
pm

[sulai]

I think we can leave it like it is: "Güterwagen".

Anyway, having a look at the link posted by planetmaker, the waggon which transports wood, is a "Güterwagen", too.

[MasterNnja]

Anyway, having a look at the link posted by planetmaker, the waggon which transports wood, is a "Güterwagen", too.

#

That's exactly why I added that. "Güter" isn't just what is "goods" in OTTD, it's everything else, except passenger, too... i.e. Güter = cargo, but goods = Waren. As I already said, Güter has the same word origin as goods, but that doesn't change the fact that Waren is a much better translation than Güter.

IMO it is confusing, especially to newbies, if we call the cargo "Waren" but let the vehicles start with "Güter..."

[ige]

In Austria wood is transported in "Rungenwagen" (Pieces longer than ~3 m) or in "offener Güterwagen" - engl. gondolas for shorter pieces.

[michael blunck]

"fahren" vs. "fliegen" ... am i the only person having a déjà vu about that?

Hehe.

Anyway, if there are no different strings available depending on the type of "vehicle", then maybe drop the verb entirely? I.e., like in TTDPatch "Nach xyz" ... Nevertheless, having read too much in this thread about "Neue Rechtschreibung", you should include the appropriate verb if at all possible?

BTW, for every air vehicle except a plane, the correct German term would be "fahren" instead of "fliegen", e.g. for a balloon.

STR_SORT_BY_LIFE_TIME
"Verbleibende Betriebsdauer"?

Sounds OK to me.

"lifetime" is translated as "Lebensdauer" elsewhere already.

Yeah. But again, isn´t this rather uncommon in connection with a vehicle in German? And BTW, "lifetime" = "Standzeit" would be the usual technical term, e.g. for tools etc. Nevertheless, I won´t recommend it for vehicles either.

Why not "Betriebsdauer"?

["Waren" vs. "Güter"]

What´s the difference between both terms? And, even more!, what´s the meaning of these terms in the first place? Let´s have a look:

Güter ::= alle "Mittel oder Leistungen die direkt oder indirekt der Bedürfnisbefriedigung dienen" (Handbuch der Ökonomie),
Waren ::= alles was "Gegenstand des Handels ist, im engern Sinn alle Handelsobjekte außer Geld und Wertpapieren" - (und rechtlich gesehen) - "alle beweglichen Sachen, die den Gegenstand eines gewerbsmäßigen Umsatzes des Handels zu bilden pflegen." (Meyers Konversationslexikon)

I..e., "Güter" is a superset to "Waren". Moreover, from my preoccupation with economy (ECS) I learned that even in a narrower sense, "Waren" is used also as a subset to the more broadly used term "Güter". E.g. "bulk goods" would be translated to "Massengüter" or "Schüttgut" but never to "Massenwaren" or "Schüttwaren". There are more examples like this, BTW. From my understanding, "Waren" should be used when talking about something related to trading, but not transporting.

In the same sense, "Güterwagen" is (correctly) used in German, but "Warenwagen" is non-existant.

BTW, checking the Stinnes-Güterwagenkatalog doesn´t help much, because today all freight wagons are referenced by their UIC labelling.

And BTW², "Güter" isn´t == "cargo", instead "Fracht(gut)" is == "cargo".

And shouldn´t those more distinct names like "Rungenwagen" be left to .grf-sets? Because for the original TTD wagons there´s already a German translation.

regards
Michael

[MasterNnja]

michael blunk, nice to see you thought about the issue...

However, you seem to contradict your own explanation?

Güter ::= alle "Mittel oder Leistungen die direkt oder indirekt der Bedürfnisbefriedigung dienen" (Handbuch der Ökonomie),
Waren ::= alles was "Gegenstand des Handels ist, im engern Sinn alle Handelsobjekte außer Geld und Wertpapieren" - (und rechtlich gesehen) - "alle beweglichen Sachen, die den Gegenstand eines gewerbsmäßigen Umsatzes des Handels zu bilden pflegen." (Meyers Konversationslexikon)

This would indicate that the term "Güter" in the game is indeed correct, so also the cargo type "Waren" should be renamed to "Güter".

But then you say

I..e., "Güter" is a superset to "Waren".

Did you mean <b>sub</b>set? Because from the above definition of both terms, I would say, it's the other way round, and in-game coal or wood could also be "Waren"... (However it doesn't feel right IMO, from my experience it's the other way round, Waren as a subset to Güter, but perhaps this is again common term vs. technical term or a regional issue...)

"Waren" should be used when talking about something related to trading, but not transporting.

So, Waren is not correct, but Güter isn't either? Do we need a completely different word? Sicne it says "Warenkisten" on the goods that are produced, this seams to be okay, but a "Warenkistentransporter" would be plain ridiculous...

My problem with all this is, that it is confusing to newbies. If you already know the game a wihle, you will get adapted to anything, even if we would call it "Ramsch" or something like that. I for myself had to search for the correct wagon to transport goods, because on the factory it said "Waren" and for every other industry you instinctively search for the word that describes the cargo that industry does produce and you get the correct vehicle. Just took me a second scrolling through the available wagon types, though, before I figured, I would need the Gütertransport.

But again, say you don't want to transport Goods in particular, but something different, see the "Gütertransporter" and expect this can be refit to hold different kinds of cargo..

[michael blunck]

I..e., "Güter" is a superset to "Waren".

Did you mean <b>sub</b>set? Because from the above definition of both terms, I would say, it's the other way round, [...]

No. See above:

Güter ::= alle "Mittel oder Leistungen ...

"Leistungen" could be e.g. "Dienstleistungen". These are "Güter" (in economics) but not "Waren", hence "Waren" is a subset of "Güter".

Sicne it says "Warenkisten" on the goods that are produced, this seams to be okay, but a "Warenkistentransporter" would be plain ridiculous...

Well, the original terms (in vanilla TTD) and their German translations are somewhat silly/childish. They don´t comply with more exact "technical" terms used in transportation or economy.

Part of the problem is indeed that original wagons weren´t "refittable" and had been named with regard to the cargo they were able to transport. Now, since we have refittable wagons and more "realistic" .grf sets we switched to more "functional" names for wagons, e.g. "Rungenwagen" instead of "Holzwagen" or "Kühlwagen" instead of "Lebensmitteltransporter". ( I just can´t remember those original names, hehe ... )

regards
Michael

[sulai]

Btw, the button captions like "Fahrzeug duplizieren" in the four different depots don't fit.

What do you think about using "Fahrzeug klonen", "Flugzeug klonen", ... (they fit perfectly)

Or just using "duplizieren" in all four window types?

[MasterNnja]

Mhhh, I don't like "klonen". While it is common to use the english word "clone" for things which are not biological, it IMO sounds quite strange in German... For example you would say OpenTTD is a "Clone" of Transport Tycoon Deluxe even in German, and not a "Klon"... If you are desperate not to use an english word, you would surely try to find something different, than "Klon", perhaps "Imitation", "Nachbau", ... (although the meaning fluctuates a bit, however... no, I'll edit that out, don't know if this kind of statement is welcome).

What about "kopieren"? It's considerably shorter than "duplizieren", but I don't know if it would fit.

[sulai]

"Fahrzeug kopieren" is a tiny bit too long, all others fit with "kopieren".

[michael blunck]

Well, "klonen" seems to be OK, IMO.

http://www.duden.de/duden-suche/werke/n ... n.717.html

regards
Michael