[WIP] INFRA by SAC

ISA · Post by **ISA** » 04 Jan 2007 23:53

Wait'a minute... Who's leaving... Ehhh SAC. Why? Don't go. I need You... Sry... we need You here! Come back!

Darkvater · Post by **Darkvater** » 05 Jan 2007 00:36

I actually had to go and search for the reason SAC is leaving now because I never visit the off-topic section as, well, it is off-topic and is full of useless gibberish. Very, very sad to hear you are going away, but you are the only one who can change your mind.

I'll just add one thing: the internet is a very harsh place, even worse lots of times than real life. Many people will react much more violently from behind their 'supposed' anonymity then they would face-to-face and we have to live with that. There will always be jerks. I understand your main grime was the mob-fight supported by mod(s) for gigolo or whatever his name is; and especially the mod-part. I do also regret this part but I think we've all learned from this as orudge, the head-wizard, was more than not happy about it.

I do hope you will change your decision and one day return. Until then hopefully your love of (O)TTD(P) has not been spoiled and we can further be amazed by the creations on your website

.

Until then, and for now,

Goodbye, we will really miss you

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 05 Jan 2007 00:37

As you can tell from my post-count, I have been a fairly active member (though not so much recently), and around for a fairly long while (though not as long as some). And I've had my share of arguments over the years. I do not know what sort of argument has caused this, and I don't really want to research it. So I'm not passing judgement on anyone. But in general terms, I do want to say this: If there are fights, and the peaceful, productive people leave, then who will be left? The fighters. And then there will be no point to the forum, and Owen will shut it down, and then where will we be? Please, don't go away; we need good people. And mostly, that's what we've got.

DaleStan · Post by **DaleStan** » 05 Jan 2007 01:12

stevenh wrote:I'd prefer to have 'Off-Topic' renamed to 'Pig Sty'.

Stop that. You're insulting the pigs.

lifeblood · Post by **lifeblood** » 05 Jan 2007 02:11

Ha! DaleStan has it right. Off-topic is banter of the lowest caliber. It's good for checking what's new in the world of teen-angst, and the 'Guess the Train' thread. Please don't leave because of content of that forum, nor the attitudes of a few (or many) in there. Yeah, this place is full of double standards, and frequent outbursts of nastiness, but this is the place for TTD on the internet, and I'm sure that's what keeps many people here. Within the TTD graphics community, you are highly respected, and that's the only community that should matter. Please continue with your contributions. You'll be sorely missed otherwise.

Post by **WWTBAM** » 05 Jan 2007 02:23

OT We need a semi Off topic forum for things like the tt word game and transport related thingies and then they can be safely separated from the horribleness that goes on in Off topic.

Im sure ill miss your atwork and especially the screenies bye

spaceman-spiff · Post by **spaceman-spiff** » 05 Jan 2007 03:41

For all you off-topics bashers, I'm ashamed in your place
The ones that start riots there are here for the game in the first place, they are your kind too, so don't judge us who do fun and good stuff in the OT
I can't help it if some people turn out to be bad

Psistorm · Post by **Psistorm** » 05 Jan 2007 03:49

its a sad thing to see this happen. all I can say is: SAC, you are - by my judgements - one of the greatest artists on this forum here, and seemed like a totally nice person all around. your leave is a big loss for the community here, and secretly I hope that you decide otherwise and come back. Ive seen something similar happen to a close friend of mine, she is artist herself, and wanted to quit drawing because of drama. in the end she stayed, since drawing is what she loves, but the idea of losing her and her stunning art got to me a lot.

so.. I hope you come back, but like mentioned before, the only person who can change your mind, is you. just let it be known that you and your stunning works will be missed.

saint · Post by **saint** » 05 Jan 2007 07:21

I am sorry to see you go.

Aegir · Post by **Aegir** » 05 Jan 2007 08:03

You know what people? I agree with SAC's reason to leave. She's got my email regarding that issue and she should know how I feel about it. What has gone down recently has been bloody disgraceful, and this forums users have been grating on my nerves consistantly for the last few months. This forum has a lot of absolute champions, and I respect them dearly, but this forum is also starting to fill up with annoying and/or useless twits. This makes me angry, but not at the forums staff and Owen himself. Heck, I think I respect them even more for keeping their head up and not losing their cool over it all like I am right now.

I'm entering lurk/inactive status pretty much. PM's will be answered, threads that directly relate to me or projects I work on will be followed. But barring those cases, I'm pretty much outta here. I can still be caught on IRC and I'm definatly keeping my projects running.

Smell you later.

Purno · Post by **Purno** » 05 Jan 2007 08:38

SAC, I'm very sorry to see you go, and I'm very sorry I was one of the posters in that topic you're referring too...

I hope to see you around at IRC tho, if not, here's my last huggle for you

*huggle*

Killer 11 · Post by **Killer 11** » 05 Jan 2007 08:56

krtaylor wrote:I do want to say this: If there are fights, and the peaceful, productive people leave, then who will be left? The fighters. And then there will be no point to the forum, and Owen will shut it down, and then where will we be? Please, don't go away; we need good people. And mostly, that's what we've got.

That is so true, if all the good people leave there won't be these forums anymore SAC. We should stay and watch the troublemakers leave, after all seing us leave is what they want and if we leave we give them a reason to keep going at it. So let's be strong and stay all in all we face much worse things in real life and we live trough it

BobDendry · Post by **BobDendry** » 05 Jan 2007 09:55

Aegir wrote:I'm entering lurk/inactive status pretty much. PM's will be answered, threads that directly relate to me or projects I work on will be followed. But barring those cases, I'm pretty much outta here. I can still be caught on IRC and I'm definatly keeping my projects running.

You know what? I've been contemplating doing exactly the same thing for about a week, for almost exactly the same reasons. And I'm now going to go ahead with that.

SAC · Post by **SAC** » 05 Jan 2007 11:38

Hi all!

Seing that I recieve lots of pm’s and e-mails, not to mention posts in my threads, about my decision to leave, I can tell that despite my attempt to explain my reasons things still remains with a bit of misunderstandings.

Regardless of what many of you think, this isn’t – and has never been – an issue about the OT-section itself. Almost every place online have debates and arguings going on, mostly inside OT-section but also in other areas. And people are debating and arguing in real life as well. I have nothing against the OT-section here at TT-forums. In fact, I rarely even visit it other than now and then just to check whether there could be anything of interest posted, and most of the times there isn’t – for me anyways. Besides, personally I’m not a member of TT-forums just because of its OT-section, but for the sake of receiving feedback on behalf of my work for TTD. But again, personally I have nothing against people debating or arguing over things in here. On the contrary, I even believe there should be debates and arguings going on for the sake of clearing out the air – and of course to allow people to express their difference in opinions. As I’ve mentioned numerous times already; Be brutally honest! And I really mean that!

However, what really bothers me – and unlike many of you I don’t make a difference whether it’s in real life or an Internet thing – is when a bunch of people form a ”mob” and starts harrassing others, too often simply because they want to ”kiss up” to someone or mostly due to lack of better judgement. It has happened on several occasions here at TT-forums with almost the very same procedure in mind, and in my opinion this is a way of act that needs to be shown every possible agenda against. I’d never sit back and accept anyone in real life being a victim of bullies – regardless of this person having a bad behavior or bad manors otherwise, so why should I accept it just because it’s the Internet and we happen to be somewhat ”faceless”? I most certainly agree that every now and then there are people entering this place behaving badly and actually screams for a warning or two – or even a ban in some cases. But forming a mob and do the ”bullie-dance” is not the way to go – and never will! As mentioned earlier, I’m pretty sure this Gibboloco person deserved his warnings and the final ban at the end, but finding that thread inside the OT-section really got to me. I was very disappointed, and I still am. It doesn’t matter if most of us are using the actual game sections of this forum, doing what we are interested in. Whenever something like this occurs it’s bound to cast a dark shadow over the entire place, feeding hostility and other nasty behaviours.

Needless to say the one that disappointed me the most was Rai. He’s a wonderful human being, and despite our past history and what you may think actually happened back then, I still believe our arguing over nothing at that time really was a positive thing. And so I’ve told him. I never left because of the arguing me and Rai had, or me and Oskar, or me and Hyronumous, I left because of the mob arising which I sensed would be a negative thing as far as my graphics work regarded. In the attempt to ”kiss-up” to Raichase most of you would have avoided to give me feedback and so my main reason for being a member at TT-forums would sort of had ceased to exist. That’s about being brutally honest. Still, the wonderful person he is, his way of doing things in this case mobilized the mob and the ”bullie-dance” could yet go active. That particular thread in the OT-section pretty much says it all. While Rai made a bad decision in the first place, the ”mob” as expected turned up for their usual performance, but as soon things turned around, a majority of the ”mob” also turned against Rai. That quite painted the picture, and I’m pretty sure – no, I’m a 100% sure – that Rai is very disappointed to say the least of some of you. And he has every right to be, making a bad decision or not initially. However, as much as I dislike his way of performing his moderating at times or his constant need of attention,;-), he’s on top of my book of people who I respect the most here at TT-forums. He speaks his mind and is being brutally honest, and would never ever kiss up to anyone, not to forget his ability to actually apologize and seek forgiveness should he have made a bad move. And I love and appreciates him for that!

What also bothers me at this point is the fact that I’ve recieved all these pm’s, e-mails, and posts about my decision to leave, simply because I have my graphics. If I would have been an ”everyday” user that made a post now and then but nothing more, my decision to leave would have created absolutely nothing in regards to what I see here today. So yes, I really hate having these graphics right now, because I believe that none of you would have cared a tiny bit if it weren’t for those. And that, to me, is a sad and above all a crappy knowledge to have!

Reading some of the comments posted or pm’s or e-mails received, it appears as if others have been concerned about issues here at TT-forums as well. The reasons may differ but the fact that some people are indeed unhappy with how things have developed for awhile should be a wake-up call itself. Even though I’ve decided to leave I don’t applause others doing so as well. On the contrary! But I would at least hope that a discussion could be allowed to rise from this about how to make a great place even better, and how to avoid ”mobs” or ”bullying” activities to arise at all! But if it hasn’t before, why should it now? Personally I have my principals. Good or bad, stupid or not, I stand by them. I can't behave in one way online, and behave differently in real life. That's not me. I'm not perfect, far from it. I too deserve a spank once in awhile for making bad decisions or judgements, but I always follow my principals. And that's what counts in my book. And seing as I follow my principals, that also explains my decision to leave.

Thank you!

DaleStan · Post by **DaleStan** » 05 Jan 2007 12:33

SAC wrote:What also bothers me at this point is the fact that I’ve recieved all these pm’s, e-mails, and posts about my decision to leave, simply because I have my graphics. If I would have been an ”everyday” user that made a post now and then but nothing more, my decision to leave would have created absolutely nothing in regards to what I see here today. So yes, I really hate having these graphics right now, because I believe that none of you would have cared a tiny bit if it weren’t for those.

Exactly. We wouldn't care because you wouldn't have given us any *reason* to care. But you have given us a reason to care, and so we do.

Are we going to miss the graphics? No, not really. They'll still be here. We'll still be able to get them after you've left.
Are we going to regret knowing that there will be no more of them? Yes. And this is why we don't want you to leave. Because there is a belief, as irrational as it may be, that people who don't post on these forums don't create graphics.

If you feel up to it, go hunt up my first post on these forums. Unless I'm greatly mistaken, it's in TTDPatch Suggestions. Now, if I had just disappeared after making that post, do you think anyone would have cared? Or even remembered me? Oskar probably thought that I was just one more person who had to be dealt with as quickly and efficiently as possible. But, do I wish that I had disappeared then? Do I regret learning NFO, creating nforenum, becoming a walking NFO reference, taking on grfcodec, becoming a patchdev? By no means. I take comfort in the belief that, were I to drop off the face of the Earth, there would be people here who miss me.

I would urge you to do the same. Think on what is, not what might have been.

Darkwalker · Post by **Darkwalker** » 05 Jan 2007 12:53

I agree.

There are many users on this forum, some of them draw graphics, some of them do coding stuff, some of them are just discussing.

If there is some problem on this forum, with run of this forum, stance of it's moderators, or whatever else, a simple user can write about it, and nothing will happen. But when someone has power and influence, and decides to write about it or to make such demontrational act like going off, maybe it sets things in motion.

SAC is very respected person, and that evocates that thoughts she wrote are read. Therefore I hope someone will think about how thigs are going on on this forum.

(It's only philosophical meditation, I don't know what happened exactly...)

Purno · Post by **Purno** » 05 Jan 2007 14:27

SAC wrote: What also bothers me at this point is the fact that I’ve recieved all these pm’s, e-mails, and posts about my decision to leave, simply because I have my graphics. If I would have been an ”everyday” user that made a post now and then but nothing more, my decision to leave would have created absolutely nothing in regards to what I see here today. So yes, I really hate having these graphics right now, because I believe that none of you would have cared a tiny bit if it weren’t for those. And that, to me, is a sad and above all a crappy knowledge to have!

I prefer huggles above graphics... your graphics are not the reason I hate to see you go, FYI. I like you and I hope to see you around at the IRC channel.

And, again, I'm sorry I was part of the 'mob', I shouldn've have posted there, and the thread should've been locked before anyone could've replied, IMO.

Now, it sucks you go because of my (and other people's) mistake. I don't care about your graphics, they can be downloaded at your website anyways, but I do care about you.

I don't care how many posts someone makes, or how many contributions, but I do care about those people I know more or less.

Now, I don't know if you still like me, or hate me now, but I'd like a last huggle before you go...

AndersI · Post by **AndersI** » 05 Jan 2007 14:29

SAC wrote:...this is a way of act that needs to be shown every possible agenda against. I’d never sit back and accept anyone in real life being a victim of bullies...

SAC, to be brutally honest, aren't you just turning your back and ignoring the problem if you leave as soon as something reaches your 'tolerance threshold'. How does running away help the forum, the mob or the mobbed?

Wouldn't it be better to continue to try to make the forums better, for example with graphics (and other things)?

eis_os · Post by **eis_os** » 05 Jan 2007 15:18

Ok again I have to clearify stuff the second time about the same stuff again, I don't really know what happend in offtopic and this post is clearly not about stuff I can't comment on.

Still I have to say, as before here http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=422187#422187 (the most relevant part is however removed from the links thee), the actually flamewar outside the time I was on the forums. Again I never had an argument with SAC, please don't mix arguments about a grf I created with other people with argumenting about it with me. You can't make me responsible about stuff other people do. I can only try to fix such stuff after it happens when I am here. Well I still miss an answer to my questions, to sum it up again, how to make TT-Forums a better place.

Still I don't think simple leaveing the forums is really a answer to support this place here, better is to actively contribute to this place. If this means I again need to a have an argument with some users here or an other moderator or even with the admin I won't have a problem with that.

I do think to make the world a better place the best way is to actually discusss this stuff at the right place, and not simple leave the place. (And actually make room for the wrong way)

DanMacK · Post by **DanMacK** » 05 Jan 2007 15:20

SAC, even if you were a member and not a graphics artist, I for one would be sad to see you leave. You're a great person, and whilst I understand your reasons for leaving, and respect them fully, doesn't mean I necessarily agree with them.

Your graphics are great, but in chatting with you on IRC, I know you're a great person, and a valuable member regardless of INFRA. You said that you can't make a difference, but you know what? You can. We need people with maturity and wisdom here. You're one of those people.

I value your opinions and would be very distressed not to have that input. The "Mob" mentality can do terrible things, but as long as people such as yourself stay above the mob, and keep a cool head, then that perspective will prevail. Other members feel the same way as well. Give us another chance. I know nothing I say can convince you to stay, but whether you know it or not, you are respected on the forums and in my opinion, would still be even had you not posted that first INFRA graphic.

You will be missed

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