Post *** ALL MiniIN Problems *** Here please

Moriarty · Post by **Moriarty** » 07 Dec 2006 17:43

It's easy enough to confirm. Just look at your train info. It has all the relevent weights.

Post by **peter1138** » 07 Dec 2006 18:49

Yup, this is a bug introduced during syncing with trunk...

	for (u = v; u != NULL; u = u->next) {
		const RailVehicleInfo *rvi = RailVehInfo(u->engine_type);
		uint32 vweight = (_cargoc.weights[u->cargo_type] * u->cargo_count * FreightWagonMult(u)) / 16;
		vweight *= FreightWagonMult(u);

Nickel_Plate · Post by **Nickel_Plate** » 07 Dec 2006 19:16

Freight Train Multiplier see this thread which as never been answered.

http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=28681

White Rabbit · Post by **White Rabbit** » 07 Dec 2006 19:25

Haha, my wood trains are supposed to weigh 840 tonnes when full, but instead they weigh 4504 tonnes. Poor 2-10-0s... even the Big Boy was only designed to pull 3600 tonnes.

Moriarty · Post by **Moriarty** » 07 Dec 2006 20:49

I got bored so I decided to make the multiplier 60.
My poor little wood train suddenly weighed 500,000 tons (yes, half a million Tons!

).
The train still got up to 14kph though! (Using realistic physics), and who knew they made the bridges that strong!

Note: This is fixed in today's stock nightly.

Moriarty · Post by **Moriarty** » 07 Dec 2006 21:06

Unrelated problem:
I run stock and miniIN nightlies from the same directory, replacing one with the other as I feel, and thus they both use the same config file.

Problem is, this line in the config causes issues:

Code: Select all

display_opt = SHOW_TOWN_NAMES|SHOW_STATION_NAMES|SHOW_SIGNS|FULL_ANIMATION|FULL_DETAIL|WAYPOINTS

It's hard to explain - basically if the line exists in the config, stock OTTD complains. If I delete the line, MiniIN complains but stock runs fine.

And when I say complain, I mean they both bring up a "ok | cancel" box [ini: invalid value] when I start or close OTTD - which is silly because whether I click ok or cancel nothing different happens. The game itself runs fine.

They should just handle it gracefully.

glx · Post by **glx** » 07 Dec 2006 22:00

Trunk and MiniIN don't have the same settings in openttd.cfg so it would be better to use different config file for each and run them using "openttd -c configfile.cfg"

Nickel_Plate · Post by **Nickel_Plate** » 07 Dec 2006 23:20

When trying to load a game from previous Mini i am getting a newgrf error.

Running Mini Version 7379

"Could't find newgrf FFFFFFFF (bigdepots_822.grf) checksum 00000000000000000000000000000000"

This grf file is in Data Dir and in config file.

Moriarty · Post by **Moriarty** » 08 Dec 2006 09:28

glx wrote:Trunk and MiniIN don't have the same settings in openttd.cfg so it would be better to use different config file for each and run them using "openttd -c configfile.cfg"

I guessed that was the case. But why do they have to fail so noisily? Other than that one line, neither of them cares what the other says.

This is poor UI - the user shouldn't be bothered with trivial things that are out of their purview. Especially not with an ok/cancel choice where both options appear to do the exact same thing.

Post by **peter1138** » 08 Dec 2006 10:23

Yeah, we should just ignore a bad config file and never tell the user anything is wrong.

Seems like a great choice to me...

richk67 · Post by **richk67** » 08 Dec 2006 10:30

Moriarty wrote:This is poor UI - the user shouldn't be bothered with trivial things that are out of their purview. Especially not with an ok/cancel choice where both options appear to do the exact same thing.

OpenTTD and the MiniIN are open source. You are welcome to recode this to your requirements.

Moriarty · Post by **Moriarty** » 08 Dec 2006 18:13

richk67 wrote:
Moriarty wrote:This is poor UI - the user shouldn't be bothered with trivial things that are out of their purview. Especially not with an ok/cancel choice where both options appear to do the exact same thing.
OpenTTD and the MiniIN are open source. You are welcome to recode this to your requirements.

*sigh*
That's what we call a "cop out".
Not everyone is a coder. I am yes, but not of the languages/techniques relevent here.
Instead I offer my expertise in the form of bug finding and general UI pointers - things which I am good at.
My point remains - it's poor UI.

Darkvater · Post by **Darkvater** » 08 Dec 2006 18:25

Moriarty wrote:Instead I offer my expertise in the form of bug finding and general UI pointers - things which I am good at.
My point remains - it's poor UI.

Don't know why it would be a poor UI. The actual meaning of the box is to make you attent to an error in your configuration file so you can fix it. Once you have fixed it, you will never see that window again. It's meant to be used, even if it is, as how you describe it.

The only poor UI part would be the 'ok/cancel' button, but if you press cancel a console is created where all further debugging messages are printed. If you don't want any windows to 'pop up', start openttd with the -d flag and everything goes into the console.

Moriarty · Post by **Moriarty** » 08 Dec 2006 20:02

The OK/Cancel is the poor UI part I was refering to as there is no clear disparity between what two do.

On the other hand, bothering the user with a message about something trivial that is almost certainly beyond their ken isn't exactly good UI either.
"Average" users don't want to have to play with config files or command line options - they want it to work. Heck I'm a non-average user and I'd rather not have to deal with pointless error messages (the game works with the faulty config, thus interrupting the loading process to warn me is pointless).

Solution (as this is supposed to be "constructive" criticism

): Spot the error and fix it automatically. If it won't effect the user then why bother them?

Quark · Post by **Quark** » 08 Dec 2006 22:00

I agreed that good program must fix this trivial automaticaly and put a line about that into console if it is enabled and better to errors list with check that this error isn't already reported

Like in compiler I don't want to see one warning about same line 1000 times.

Darkvater · Post by **Darkvater** » 08 Dec 2006 22:24

Moriarty wrote:On the other hand, bothering the user with a message about something trivial that is almost certainly beyond their ken isn't exactly good UI either.

You do know that if you play normally you never get this warning window, don't you? That you start mixing versions is your own fault.

Quark · Post by **Quark** » 09 Dec 2006 00:18

Darkvater wrote:
Moriarty wrote:On the other hand, bothering the user with a message about something trivial that is almost certainly beyond their ken isn't exactly good UI either.
You do know that if you play normally you never get this warning window, don't you? That you start mixing versions is your own fault.

It's upgrade/downgrade problem, like when you load savegame in MiniIN from 0.4.8 it's automatically upgraded to MiniIN version without complaining, so it must also be done with config file. Also it will be a good idea to make possible to remove some patch's data from savegame with higher version if it's not fatal to gameplay

penticrack · Post by **penticrack** » 09 Dec 2006 15:48

a long time ago i run a miniIN server. now i want to upgrade it.
but it dont want to start. i DL the dedicated linux version.

here the error, i searched the forum , but no answer on this question...

Code: Select all

censored@censored:~/ttd_mini> ./openttd -D
./openttd: error while loading shared libraries: libstdc++.so.6: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
censored@censored:~/ttd_mini>

what file is missing? i copied the standard missig data files into the data folder... plz help me

Moriarty · Post by **Moriarty** » 09 Dec 2006 15:50

Darkvater wrote:
Moriarty wrote:On the other hand, bothering the user with a message about something trivial that is almost certainly beyond their ken isn't exactly good UI either.
You do know that if you play normally you never get this warning window, don't you? That you start mixing versions is your own fault.

A valid point, but just because it's unlikely to happen doesn't mean it won't.

djidee · Post by **djidee** » 09 Dec 2006 16:35

Two things i walk against:

- Huge growth of city's when you serve them with trains or buses, it isn't cool anymore... A stop city growth switch/patch would be handy...

- With the longbuses.grf some buses who come available later in the game, are standard filled with goods, don't know if it's a mini in problem.. It happends with the buses Neoplan N122/3 , the Mercedes )315RHD, Volvo 9700.. All others are good.

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