New Patch: Speed Signs

CharlyHRO · Post by **CharlyHRO** » 28 Mar 2006 13:01

FIRST I like this patch.

SECOND I like the idea of hertogjan with 2 trianles (1 pointing up, the other down) and a square sign.

THIRD About the colours I have absolutely NO idea how to link a colour to a speed limit (preferred would be for me: red - slow, yellow - medium, green - fast. But this produces trouble with colourblind people as mentioned earlier). Would there be a way to have the entrance signal to these different speed lines to be the speed indicator for this line at the same time by equipping the sign to the signals pole? Sometimes <edit> but very seldom </edit> in germany I see signals on tracks wich also have a sign mounted to the pole. But I have NO idea what these signs are for...

BeSt-Com · Post by **BeSt-Com** » 28 Mar 2006 13:09

CharlyHRO wrote:.... About the colours ... (preferred would be for me: red - slow, yellow - medium, green - fast...

like traffic lights

CharlyHRO wrote:.... in germany I see signals on tracks wich also have a sign mounted to the pole. But I have NO idea what these signs are for...

perhaps like that? http://www.stellwerke.de/signal/deutsch/lf.html

MeusH · Post by **MeusH** » 28 Mar 2006 14:19

Now, onto the graphics and shapes. What do you think about these (look some posts above)?
Is color contrast too small? Or the shape is bad?

richk67 · Post by **richk67** » 28 Mar 2006 14:41

MeusH wrote:Now, onto the graphics and shapes. What do you think about these (look some posts above)?
Is color contrast too small? Or the shape is bad?

The flat triangle shape in the last post is good for real life, but the details would be way too small in the game. I have experimented with the .grf egladil put together, and the full face triangle looks good, so Im sure the pyramids will look even better.

I really like your first speedsignals3 version with the three coloured pyramids. As I said on IRC, Im open to being convinced about the upside-down pyramid and small cube.

One small item: can you chop about 2-3 pixels off the pole height. Currently, it is just high enough to obscure a reverse face signal placed behind it.

Once I have a new grf file, I will create a few screenshots of how they look in-game. Im really really pleased with the look so far. Once we finalise the .grf, I will make a full release... its ready - it just needs the grf.

richk67 · Post by **richk67** » 28 Mar 2006 14:44

BeSt-Com wrote:
CharlyHRO wrote:.... About the colours ... (preferred would be for me: red - slow, yellow - medium, green - fast...
like traffic lights

Or as they were described by the robot in Short Circuit:

Red - STOP
Green - GO
Amber - GO VERY FAST

hertogjan · Post by **hertogjan** » 28 Mar 2006 15:47

Don't make them blue. As far as I know, blue is used for a lot of things other than speed signs. For instance, to show where a train should stop (along a platform). The same sort of blue is also used on road signs to denote parking (or more often: with a cross through it, to denote where not to park).

richk67 · Post by **richk67** » 28 Mar 2006 16:00

hertogjan wrote:Don't make them blue. As far as I know, blue is used for a lot of things other than speed signs. For instance, to show where a train should stop (along a platform). The same sort of blue is also used on road signs to denote parking (or more often: with a cross through it, to denote where not to park).

It is difficult to pick colours, especially with all these opinions:

Green: GO (as in red/yellow/green), but close to grass colour is bad.
Brown: Will merge with terrain on SubArctic.
White: Will merge with terrain on SubArctic.
Grey: Dull, and will merge on SubArctic
Red: too much like a DANGER! Impassable sign
Blue: not used for speed signs IRL
Orange: may merge with terrain on Tropical
Yellow: may not stand out too well
Black: may not show detail well
Purple/Pink: I dont "do" purple and pink

I strongly prefer the Bright Green (it shows up well on temperate grass, and I like the association with "Go for it"), Bright Orange (shows up well on all terrains, a good middle colour not used elsewhere in the game for trackside items, and associates well with "warm"; a medium temperature), Bright Blue (shows up well on all, associated with "cold", so to me a good association for SLOW).

As with many of these things, you cant please all the people all of the time. However, it is a plain .grf (not newgrf), so if someone wants to customise their own symbols, they will easily be able to modify the .grf file.

Sacro · Post by **Sacro** » 28 Mar 2006 17:16

What about just using 1 colour, and having different shapes? Maybe triangle with point up for fast, circle for middle and pointing down for slow? Or maybe using arrows?

LordOfThePigs · Post by **LordOfThePigs** » 28 Mar 2006 17:43

In switzerland we have the signs attached below for temporary speed limitations (like when there is some work beeing done on the tracks). I think they look like they could be used in our case (I made the yellow one up).

CharlyHRO · Post by **CharlyHRO** » 28 Mar 2006 17:47

BeSt-Com wrote:
CharlyHRO wrote:.... in germany I see signals on tracks wich also have a sign mounted to the pole. But I have NO idea what these signs are for...
perhaps like that? http://www.stellwerke.de/signal/deutsch/lf.html

No, sorry, not like that. If I'm right I saw such a signal at the end of a station platform. It was a normal signal but there was a sign mounted at the pole of the signal. It could be a speed-limit-sign because the next station isn't far away but I'm not sure. I don't live near that station since 3 years.

richk67 · Post by **richk67** » 28 Mar 2006 18:39

LordOfThePigs wrote:In switzerland we have the signs attached below for temporary speed limitations (like when there is some work beeing done on the tracks). I think they look like they could be used in our case (I made the yellow one up).

Nice, but I want to think 3D objects rather than a flat sign. A flat sign on our graphics doesnt show up strongly enough when seen edge on, and of course, from behind you see the back of the sign.

I think the tetrahedron is quite distinct, and will not be confused with anything else (which is important when an area can be swarming with signals).

I dont expect these signs to be used all over the place. You only need one at the start of a section of track to weight the pathfinding.

LordOfThePigs · Post by **LordOfThePigs** » 28 Mar 2006 18:45

I personally think the tetrahedrons look... kinda weird...

richk67 · Post by **richk67** » 28 Mar 2006 21:46

MeusH wrote:And now?

Here is a screenie using the graphic in the "And now" post

BeSt-Com · Post by **BeSt-Com** » 29 Mar 2006 06:13

i like it!
But isn't the triangele with the apex(?) up used for warning?

/\ = Warning

\/ = give orders ?

Bjarni · Post by **Bjarni** » 29 Mar 2006 07:31

BeSt-Com wrote:i like it!
But isn't the triangele with the apex(?) up used for warning?

/\ = Warning

\/ = give orders ?

you are thinking road signs, not rail signs

Brianetta · Post by **Brianetta** » 29 Mar 2006 07:34

Interestingly, putting more green posts on a line increases the chances of a fast train using it, and decreases the chances of a slow train using it, to the extent that they'll hardly ever go the "wrong" way.

BeSt-Com · Post by **BeSt-Com** » 29 Mar 2006 07:37

yes, i did

BTW: german 'speed-sign' ...

ebik · Post by **ebik** » 29 Mar 2006 09:29

richk67 wrote:Red: too much like a DANGER! Impassable sign

Hmm - I miss signal 'track closed' that will behave as 'always red' signal, but this may be another feature request (maybe part of:)

Wolf01 wrote:signal that is red when there is no train and green when there is a train and a entrance/combo presignal that is red when at least one exit presignal is red

IMO, to complete list there should be 'treshold signals', i.e. green if there are at least given number of greens behind, and 'counting' signals, i.e. signals that go red when #of green exit presignals is less or equal to #of combo presignals. (This can be used in station entrances...)

Or better thing will be 'inteligent signal', i.e. signal that has gui, where one can setup its behavior (and signalls on which will be this signal dependent).

richk67 · Post by **richk67** » 29 Mar 2006 09:41

Brianetta wrote:Interestingly, putting more green posts on a line increases the chances of a fast train using it, and decreases the chances of a slow train using it, to the extent that they'll hardly ever go the "wrong" way.

In fact, the *only* time a train can pick an unpreferred track is when the entry signal to the preferred section is red. This is pretty rare in my tests, as you need to have the trains following pretty close behind each other. Of course, you can assist this by placing a short signal section early in the route, so that the route almost always has a green signal.

I will update the patch to add this functionality to npf.c. Currently it only works with the standard pathfinder.

I have had to save the settings in the save game, so unfortunately it will now suffer from the new "Saved Config must match" feature; ie. it will not load games not saved with the setting. (Im really not convinced that this info cannot be saved in a non-packed way - it is only a few parameters, and is only loaded once. Its not like adding an extra byte to the map array!)

MeusH · Post by **MeusH** » 29 Mar 2006 09:42

Version 4 of the signs. The cube one needs more work, IMO.

Also, I think the first two signs should be placed on regular tracks, and the last two should be placed on diagonal tracks, seen as | and - in TT world.

Please voice your suggestions, especially on shape and colours.

Edit: Added the early version of button image

Transport Tycoon Forums

New Patch: Speed Signs

Who is online