FIRS Industry Replacement Set - releases

[spacecowboy]

I was 99% sure you were going to say that. Oh, well, guess that just means no mega-economies until they up the cargo limit. I'll see if I can flowchart some of these ideas into something workable.

[kamnet]

FIRS offers double the number of cargoes over the default OpenTTD economy. That's not "mega" enough?

[Eddi]

until they up the cargo limit.

i'd put this very confidently on the "this will never happen" list.

[Alberth]

I was 99% sure you were going to say that. Oh, well, guess that just means no mega-economies until they up the cargo limit. I'll see if I can flowchart some of these ideas into something workable.

You don't need more than you can play with in a single game, everything beyond that is just a waste of time.

[NekoMaster]

I have never fully connected the industries in ECS or FIRS, While it would be fun to have more industries to play with there is just no way someone playing Vanilla OpenTTD can connect everything in a single game (unless you play from like, 1700 and well into the future, like the year 4000)

[leifbk]

In my opinion, there are already too many industries in the Full FIRS economy, while the Basic industries have too few. It soon becomes boring with yet another Fishing harbour, yet another Paper mill, yet another Oil refinery. I'd like some intermediates, like Advanced Arctic, which could include full metal, glass, and recycling chains. And f**k the Fertilizer plants. I've got too little chemicals and too much fertilizer already. With the new boosted production levels, farming supplies and engineering supplies have mostly become superfluous.

[andythenorth]

I'd like some intermediates, like Advanced Arctic

+1, total agreement

Full FIRS makes sense with Busy Bee GS, where the variety of industries and cargos keeps the GS goals diverse and interetsting .

The basic economies make sense with Silicon Valley GS or NoCarGoal GS, where you don't use many industry or cargo types.

FIRS 2 won't be released now until OpenTTD 1.6 is released (likely April 2016). This gives time to work on more intermediate economies. I am dissatisfied with Heart of Darkness for multiple reasons, so that is being reworked. Other suggestions are welcome here.

[spacecowboy]

First, a disclaimer: I am voicing my personal opinion here, speaking of how I like to play games. I'm the dude who likes to play Civ IV on Marathon with the biggest map possible, with the extra technologies modpacks installed. I like very long games, and I like lots of options (that'll be a recurring theme). I do not mean to denigrate any of the ways that anyone else plays or enjoys this game.

i'd put this very confidently on the "this will never happen" list.

Do you know why that is? I'm honestly just curious; it seems like it'd be a matter of changing a single field size. I guess FIRS and ECS are the only GRFs that come anywhere close to the limit, but then why bother increasing the number of industries? The same goes for changing the starting year limit, to be honest.

FIRS offers double the number of cargoes over the default OpenTTD economy. That's not "mega" enough?

I'm not knocking on FIRS at all, I think it's fantastic. But I love having multiple equally valid ways to achieve my goals. Like having bunches of industries that all intertwine with each other, and ideally interact back with the player. For example, on leifbk's thread on his 1700-2050 game, he mentions that for purely cargo-oriented gameplay, there's simply no point in having passenger service, as town growth is actually detrimental to his style of play. What if he was encouraged to grow one or two towns on his map in a controlled manner in order to gain access to some industries (mega-malls and office towers and research hospitals don't just pop out of the ground in the middle of nowhere)? FIRS already started down this path with the Supplies cargoes.

My point with adding cargo types is simply that adding a new industry that produces "goods" doesn't add anything to the game. For example, I mentioned an Appliance Factory earlier. Those appliances could go to shopping malls (home appliances), hospitals (medical equipment), nuclear enrichment facilities (scientific equipment), and others I haven't thought of yet. Categorizing those "appliances" as "goods" means there's nothing stopping me from sending furniture or greeting cards to the same places.

And before somebody throws out the requisite "shut up already and make your own damn GRF", I might start toying with it in the next few months. I've no ability to draw, though, so I'd be using placeholder graphics for my own use until the thing is stable. Which would be a while.

I'd like some intermediates, like Advanced Arctic

Also agreed.

And andythenorth, thank you for making a fantastic mod.

[Gremnon]

One rather minor niggle I've been having with FIRS lately - the stockpiles. I haven't checked the 2.0 nightlies yet, I'm still on 1.4.5 (At least according to the filename for the version I have), but the changelog doesn't seem to suggest any change yet for this.
SPI handles stockpiles the way I'd expect for any industry with one, processing cargo over time rather than instantly. But on the other hand, SPI doesn't have a means of taking cargoes to the primary industries to increase their output.
At least for now, SPI also doesn't have the other economies in, just full FIRS, which can get kinda busy.
That's all, I'm done.

Although I vaguely remember a long while back when I first used FIRS it did cargo processing. Maybe I'm misremembering.

[andythenorth]

FIRS doesn't and won't do delayed cargo processing.

Your memory might be of a very early version FIRS that did have acceptance limits on engineering and farm supplies.

[3iff]

But on the other hand, SPI doesn't have a means of taking cargoes to the primary industries to increase their output.

I did that because the mass of Firs industries/cargos was overwhelming. I did later add manpower as a means of providing some options to increase output levels.

You do have another option, and that is to write your own industry set (maybe using Firs or SPI as a starting point). That's what I did.

[RichardJGE]

I think the individuals arguing that there is no need for more cargo, based on not being able to connect everything or that there is already so much to play with, miss the point, somewhat.

More cargos and more industries provides, inherently, more choice to the player in what they wish to link up. No rail industry IRL connects everything themselves! Some are entirely dedicated to one type, such as coal (or at least used to be in that case). Variety is the spice of life, as it were; I strongly believe that upping the cargo limit would provide a richer FIRS experience and many more paths for the player to play. The possibilities are endless and, if technically possible, should not be arbitrarily restricted.

Another benefit of more cargo is the ability to have fluctuating primary resource economies. So, in an early game, say pre 1900, coal could be a high, common commodity with relative prices: as time goes by in the game, especially by 1950, you could have oil replace coal (overtime) as resources and priorities change. This in turn would allow for fluctuating power industries, with coal power stations going out of business and oil power stations, nuclear and renewable centres rising in occurrence and demand.

As a rather cargo obsessed player, I see many new branches that could be developed and, inherently, richen the entire mechanics of the game.

Warm regards,
R.

[Gondrong]

Hi, I would to ask about my new subtropical map with FIRS. I noticed that now towns in the middle of the desert does not need food and water anymore to grow, is it like that with you guys?

Sorry if this has been asked before.

[andythenorth]

I noticed that now towns in the middle of the desert does not need food and water anymore to grow, is it like that with you guys?

I can't replicate that sorry

[Gondrong]

Then top one shows vanilla version, the bottom one shows FIRS version. Is there anyway to still have the water and food requirement for town growth in FIRS?

[Alberth]

The last sentence is suspicious: "Transport Passengers from this town to make it grow". That does not look like plain OpenTTD. Are you running a city builder script?
(My guess is yes.) If so, try removing that and start a new game. Game scripts can change the requirements of towns.

FWIW, I can also reproduce it, but only for very small towns, which don't have enough houses to accept goods or water.

[Gondrong]

The last sentence is suspicious: "Transport Passengers from this town to make it grow". That does not look like plain OpenTTD. Are you running a city builder script?
(My guess is yes.) If so, try removing that and start a new game. Game scripts can change the requirements of towns.

FWIW, I can also reproduce it, but only for very small towns, which don't have enough houses to accept goods or water.

Okay its fixed. It seems that I have a Renewed City Growth script. Anyway, why is there no water tower in FIRS for sub-tropical maps?

Thanks for your help!

[Alberth]

FIRS is an industry set, it replaces all default industries, including water supply and water tower.

Don't really know why, but I suspect because it's boring. You bring water from supply to tower, just lke coal from mine to power plant in temperate, one trip, boring.
It's much more fun to make cargo getting processed by secondary and tertiary industries.

[andythenorth]

FIRS 2.0.0 is now on Bananas

FIRS 2.0.0 brought to you by andythenorth, DanMacK and frosch, with help and advice from Alberth, Eddi, Planetmaker and many others, and building on the work from all the authors of FIRS 1. Thanks to Oz for the original Steel Mill sprites and Kyosuke1989 (for Arctic Basic economy help), and to all the people whose sprites are re-used under GPL. Thanks also to all translators, to OpenTTD Coop for the devzone, and to everyone who gave a decent bug report

Headlines

• more than a year’s work
• over 800 code commits
• 3 economies completely redesigned
• 10 new industry types
• new or improved graphics for 11 industries
• 9 new cargos
• numerous other improvements and fixes to gameplay behaviour
• improved docs, including cargo-flow graphs
• requires OpenTTD 1.6.0
• FIRS 2 is not savegame compatible with FIRS 1

FIRS 2 guide + docs: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/rel ... .0.0/docs/

--------------
2.0.0 Release
--------------

"Better, faster, stronger."

FIRS 2.0.0 is not savegame-compatible with any previous version of FIRS.

Improved Economies

• 'Temperate Basic' economy
  • added Fish chain, it's important for South West UK, which is the inspiration for this economy
  • adjusted Steel Mill and Metal Workshop intro dates to 1800, fixing broken metal cargo chain before 1850
• 'Arctic Basic' economy
  • totally reworked, inspired by Scandinavia (previously generic sub-Arctic regions)
  • highly industrial economy, dominated by Chemicals chain
  • recommended start date: 1950
  • multiple new chains, including Pyrites, Vehicles and Vehicle Parts chains
• 'Tropic Basic' economy
  • partially reworked, inspired directly by Argentina, Chile and Peru (previously generic South American)
  • this economy focuses mostly on agriculture, and a couple of extractive industry types
  • removed Bauxite and Vehicles chains
  • added Alcohol, Copper and Fish chains
• 'In a Hot Country'
  • replaces 'Heart of Darkness' economy
  • inspired by central-western Africa
  • best used with sub-Tropic climate
  • a complex economy with 30 cargos and 32 industries
  • highly focussed on exporting primary cargos
  • multiple new chains and cargo types, including Cassava, Edible Oil, Nuts, Phosphate and Manganese
• 'Extreme' economy
  • renamed 'FIRS' to 'Extreme'
  • added Power Plant
  • tip: try 'Extreme' with the Busy Bee Game Script which provides cargo delivery goals

Improved Industries

• new industry types:
  • Copper Refinery
  • Liquids Terminal
  • Manganese Mine
  • Phosphate Mine
  • Power Plant
  • Pyrite Mine
  • Pyrite Smelter
  • Supply Yard
  • Tyre Plant
  • Vineyard
• improved industry graphics and layouts
  • Brewery
  • animated the flag
  • Builders Yard
  • Chemical Plant
  • Coal Mine
  • Coffee Estate
  • Food Processing Plant
  • Fruit Plantation
  • Iron Works
  • Rubber Plantation
  • Steel Mill
  • Vehicle Factory
• Dairies: no longer need to locate near towns
• Dredging Site:
  • now available from year 0, consistent with Quarry, which fixes broken cargo chains in some economies
  • flashing pixels removed from 1st generation graphics
• Furniture Factory: 'crates' not 't' in extra text string for
• Grain Mill:
  • renamed to Flour Mill
  • windmill version has improved graphics and layout
• Hotels: now build near any houses, rather than being restricted to 'near town sign', which could limit hotel construction in larger cities
• Lumber Yard: kiln building was broken when built on slopes
• Nitrate Mine: fixed station name
• Oil Refinery: no longer uses graphics from base set, and has additional layouts
• Quarry and Clay Pit:
  • improved graphics, including animation
  • revised industry layouts to be smaller and easier to place on the map
  • the map generator can now reliably place the quarry and clay pit at game start (previously these industry types were often missing)
  • restored the standard 1-tile gap between these industry types and any other industry
• Recycling Plant:
  • no longer randomises cargos at construction time, that was the source of too many bug reports and confusions
  • now introduced in 1978, for higher chance of seeing it in a game before getting bored
• Sawmill: additional layouts

Improved Cargos

• new cargo types
  • Cassava
  • Copper
  • Edible Oil
  • Maize
  • Manganese
  • Nuts
  • Phosphate
  • Pyrite Ore
  • Vehicles
• Engineering Supplies: new cargo icon
• Petrol: now named Petroleum Fuels, better reflects actual use in-game
• Recyclables: removed covered class, added bulk class
• Sugar Beet and Sugarcane:
  • removed the daft magic where Sugarcane was only in Tropic climate, and otherwise Sugarbeet was used
  • these two cargos are now completely independent from each other, don't change per climate
  • Sugar Beet appears in some economies, Sugarcane in others

General Improvements

• adjusted clustering behaviour for most primary industries
  • clusters are less dense, making it much easier to place stations
  • especially easier for placing supply delivery stations that should not overlap multiple industries
• adjusted industry production rates for most primary industries
  • production is generally adjusted upwards, especially for farms
  • revised production allows pickup of sensible amounts from a single industry instead of needing to aggregate several industries
  • amount of supplies required now same for farms and mines
• industry probability revised to better distribute numbers of each industry type
• processing industries that combine cargo now have a three-month delivery window instead of one month for increased output
  • this supports a wider range of transport types and play-styles, for example infrequent deliveries with ships
• added missing boost behaviour at some processing industries
• for many industries, allow location on a wider range of slopes, for better distribution on map gen
  • instead of simply disallowing all slopes, require 'effectively level' land, where only the highest corner of each tile must match the highest corner of the industry north tile
  • the benefit of this is that industries are no longer mostly crowded into flat valleys by map generator
• removed gaps in layouts from multiple industries, they look unsightly and aren't actually useful for building routes/stations
• explicitly preserve cargo slots (IDs) for passengers, mail, goods and food, default OTTD houses need them
• removed custom station rating parameter
• added parameters for adjusting 'Enhanced' and 'Gung-Ho' production behaviour at primary industries
  • amount of supplies required for each level can be set
  • increased production at each level can be set
  • affects farm-type and mine-type industries
  • port-type industries are also affected, with requirements at 10x the parameter value
• explicitly set the order of economies in parameter menu and docs (progression is from basic to more complex)
• updated online docs with images for new and changed industries
• docs now include charts showing cargo flow
• docs had some broken html
• updated translations page of docs, linking to newgrf translator
• updated readme.txt with newer vehicle sets

[Timeflyer]

FIRS 2.0.0 is now on Bananas


[*]requires OpenTTD 1.6.0

latest stable is 1.5.3
And Ii assume that most players not even playing with this Stable....tink there are a lot Users who uses 1.4.4 or older versions.


EDIT: Funny..minutes after I posted this...there is the new Stable 1.6.0 online...