Transport Tycoon Forums

<The content of this topic used to be in the "How many wagons in a train" discussion. Please keep both topics on-topic. ~Hellfire @ 2005-01-31 14:18 GMT>

Well - I don't think that the game will allow more then 5% gradient. On current railroads 3% is considered steep ^^

As for trucks - 10-20% happens from time to time

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the sprites above were drawn using 1337 5K|LLZ
All art and vehicle stats I authored for TT and derivatives are as of now PUBLIC DOMAIN! Use as you see fit
Just say NO to the TT fan-art sprite licensing madness. Public domain your art as well.

How is the % measured? I remember my physics teacher explained it once, and it wasn't what i expected.

A grade is 1% if it rises 1meter/yard/foot/furlongs in 100meters/yards/feet/furlongs

_________________

the sprites above were drawn using 1337 5K|LLZ
All art and vehicle stats I authored for TT and derivatives are as of now PUBLIC DOMAIN! Use as you see fit
Just say NO to the TT fan-art sprite licensing madness. Public domain your art as well.

30% is in the FRD, just to make sure we disagree on it (I thought it was way off too).

I won't block the 1 km/h solution BTW, I'm just still wondering.

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Dutch Trainset for OpenTTD | Dutch Trainset Topic | Combined Roadset v0.10

There are 2 ways for calculating the %, which can have different results:

If you have pythagoras' triangle (A^2 = B^2 + C^2), take C as the difference in height, do you use C/A or C/B ?

C/A will always be lower than 100% (because A can never be shorter than C)
C/B will be 100% at a 45° angle (B=C).


See => big difference

Incline in % is defined as the difference in height divided by the horizontal length, i.e. C/B, in your terminology.

Oh, and by the way, A will never be shorter than B, but can be shorter or longer than C, hence your remark about C/A being always lower than 100% is false.

Take a look at the picture included in this post. I hope I had the same triangle in mind as you

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What you just said made no sense. A is always bigger than c and b in your diagram.

What's confusing people is the fact that you've done A^2 = B^2 + C^2 whereas it's normally written: A^2 + B^2 = C^2
In which the % would be b/a or a/b depending which way round you put them. So the % would be anywhere between infinity and 0.

:lol: show me such a triangle I know, I know, I was wrong in my post and edited it. Of course I meant A can never be shorter than C.

Yeah, it's the same.

Oh, I didn't know that. I just know how to use that formula, I never care about the actual letters in it (except if they have a special meaning or so).


But, nobody answered the question => Which % do we refer to ?

I agree, but I didn't said anything, becuse I was not sure if that was how they do in middle europe or if PJayTycy did wrong.

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My OpenTTD contributions (AIs, Game Scripts, patches, OpenTTD Auto Updater, and some sprites)
Junctioneer (a traffic intersection simulator)

And still noone answered the question. I believe up to 6% for normal trains is safe, as is up to 10% for cogwheel trains. RV's might take up to 20%. I really don't see what the fuzz is about how to calculate steepness. Steepness grades have ALWAYS been measured in the rise of the terrain in meters divided by the distance of that rise in meters.

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Dutch Trainset for OpenTTD | Dutch Trainset Topic | Combined Roadset v0.10

Meeting Decisions:

* No train ever gets stuck on steep track
* Slopes in TE will be steeper than normal because of how they need to be displayed to the user.

Status: Closed? More to say?

How? They will climb up the mountain at a minimum of 1 km/h.

Technically not, but the Z scale will differ from the X,Y scale of tracks. So tracks will look steeper then they are. (However I am not sure if that way is the best. But that is the decission.)

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My OpenTTD contributions (AIs, Game Scripts, patches, OpenTTD Auto Updater, and some sprites)
Junctioneer (a traffic intersection simulator)

Yes, that's what i meant. I think we need to do it really, as real life slopes are so small, that users couldn't tell what's going on properly and we couldn't have maps with A LOT of hills and stuff.

As I've said before, I would increase the speed of "1km/h" to something a little more manageable, but still restrictive. IMO, 10km/h seems fair - rarely in real running will anything get that slow (possible exception of ships, but there are other issues there). To go as low as 1km/h seems a little too crippling, especially when we're not at the "toy" scale of TTD.

I would say that we don't place any kind of limit on slopes. If the user wants to build concrete-slept railway track up an 80-degree cliff face, at least make an effort, and let them suffer the consequences. Any such limit should etiher be totally inclusive - i.e. nothing fails on it, though most things could easily clear steeper - or totally exclusive - i.e. nothing at all in the game can get up that slope without dropping to "1km/h".

All for visually exaggerating the slopes, since it's nice to know that you have a slope, though (later on) a visual cue needs to be provided for this.

10 km/h is almost a bonus for the player and I agree (somewhat) that 1 km/h is too slow. How about a compromise of 5 km/h?

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Dutch Trainset for OpenTTD | Dutch Trainset Topic | Combined Roadset v0.10

Lets say that it should be low, anyway we will store that either as a constant or as a variable that can be configured (maybe by the climate pack), so we will be able to twek that later on.

So for now lets say that it should be low, 1-10km/h or so.

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My OpenTTD contributions (AIs, Game Scripts, patches, OpenTTD Auto Updater, and some sprites)
Junctioneer (a traffic intersection simulator)

Dependant on skill level.

1 km/h - hard
5 km/h - normal
10 km/h - easy

_________________

the sprites above were drawn using 1337 5K|LLZ
All art and vehicle stats I authored for TT and derivatives are as of now PUBLIC DOMAIN! Use as you see fit
Just say NO to the TT fan-art sprite licensing madness. Public domain your art as well.

LOL, why didn't I think of that. Nice suggestion uzurpator, I'm all for it .

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Dutch Trainset for OpenTTD | Dutch Trainset Topic | Combined Roadset v0.10

Now we know at which speeds vehicles will travel if the slope is too steep. I also think we know how to calculate slopes but not yet how to express them. I prefer grades as that's the easiest math you can do.

Now what will be the default limits for vehicles?
- 6% for normal rail vehicles
- ?? for cog-wheel rail vehicles
- ?? for road vehicles
- 0.1% for ships (suggested by uzurpator somewhere)

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Dutch Trainset for OpenTTD | Dutch Trainset Topic | Combined Roadset v0.10