Cargodist to limited-capacity stations

Got an idea for OpenTTD? Post it here!

Moderator: OpenTTD Developers

Eddi
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 8258
Joined: 17 Jan 2007 00:14

Re: Cargodist to limited-capacity stations

Post by Eddi »

i can't understand your station setup from your description. please make an image, or a savegame.
User avatar
krtaylor
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 11784
Joined: 07 Feb 2003 01:58
Location: Texas, USA
Contact:

Re: Cargodist to limited-capacity stations

Post by krtaylor »

I tore it out because it didn't work, so it's not in a savegame anymore. But I'll try to diagram it here.
S = train station square, T = tram stop, ===== train track, -------- tram track

Code: Select all

-------------T------------
======SSSSSS=======
======SSSSSS=======
-------------T------------
So you see, there's a train station in the middle with multiple platforms, and what amounts to TWO tram stops, one on either side, connected to the train station and thus all part of the same station complex, but not connected to each other. The idea was that each of the tram stops on either side, served its side of the city using separate routes.

But it didn't work - only the first tram stop built ever had trams stop at it. At the other one, trams would just drive right through it without stopping, and got confused.

If trams use the same pathfinding mechanism, this sort of arrangement ought to work, I'd think.
Development Projects Site:
http://www.as-st.com/ttd
Japan, American Transition, Planeset, and Project Generic Stations available there
Eddi
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 8258
Joined: 17 Jan 2007 00:14

Re: Cargodist to limited-capacity stations

Post by Eddi »

i guess you screwed something up. either you connected the tram stop to the wrong station, or you built a cargo stop instead of a passenger stop.
User avatar
YNM
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 3570
Joined: 22 Mar 2012 11:10
Location: West Java

Re: Cargodist to limited-capacity stations

Post by YNM »

Or it's due to the significantly longer path it'd take for a tram to took the other stop... Or it's just an apparent problem - trams actually take the other one but due to the distance it looks like only one is taken at a time.

Screenshot for best answer.
YNM = yoursNotMine - Don't get it ?
「ヨーッスノットマイン」もと申します。
User avatar
krtaylor
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 11784
Joined: 07 Feb 2003 01:58
Location: Texas, USA
Contact:

Re: Cargodist to limited-capacity stations

Post by krtaylor »

I've got another question connected with CargoDist. What is the algorithm used to calculate payments and how it is split between feeder services? I see the control in the settings but don't really understand what it does.

The reason I ask is, some of my feeder services are running dead full but are losing more money than they cost to operate. When they arrive at a station and unload, instead of the usual profit message that floats up, you get a red Cost message.

The only reason I can think as to why this might be, is because by the layout of my network, that feeder service is moving passengers in the opposite direction from where they ultimately want to go. When they get off the branchline train at the junction station, they are now further away from their destination (as the crow flies) than they were when they started.

Imagine the network in the shape of a check-mark, with a junction city at the bottom point of the check-bark, and then a city at the top of each of the short and long arms of the check-mark.

A passenger who is in the city at the top of the short arm, who wants to go to the city at the top of the long arm, will first have to travel down the short arm to get to the vertex city, change trains there, and then ride back up the long arm to get to where he's going.

Thus, the entire first trip down the short arm is in the wrong direction.

Does this create a "cost" to that train, since the passenger ends up further away than he was?

In reality, of course, transport tickets aren't charged that way - you pay for the distance you travel, even if some of it was out of the way for you.
Development Projects Site:
http://www.as-st.com/ttd
Japan, American Transition, Planeset, and Project Generic Stations available there
Alberth
OpenTTD Developer
OpenTTD Developer
Posts: 4763
Joined: 09 Sep 2007 05:03
Location: home

Re: Cargodist to limited-capacity stations

Post by Alberth »

Cargo-dist doesn't touch paments, so they are the same as before. The feeder systems rules apply with respect to payment: http://wiki.openttd.org/Feeder_service and perhaps http://wiki.openttd.org/Negative_income ... er_service
User avatar
keoz
Transport Coordinator
Transport Coordinator
Posts: 321
Joined: 16 Jul 2009 10:04

Re: Cargodist to limited-capacity stations

Post by keoz »

About urban inner networks: something which can help a lot, is using German RV NewGRF, whose trams and buses handle very large capacities of passengers.

Add to that a complet urban network properly timetabled and - it even surprised me - you CAN get rid of those stations full of 4000 or more waiting passengers.

Here an illustration:
SwissTrans, 1936-07-09.png
(1.13 MiB) Downloaded 3 times
Urban lines are not saturated at all and stations absolutely not overcrowded. Timetabling is really important here. Avoiding jams gives to the network a far better capacity.

Without the buildings:
SwissTrans, 1936-07-09#1.png
(885.6 KiB) Downloaded 3 times
Patch - Let's timetable depot waiting time with the Wait in depot patch.
GameScript - Searching a new way to make your cities growing ? Try the Renewed City Growth GameScript.
My screenshots thread.
User avatar
YNM
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 3570
Joined: 22 Mar 2012 11:10
Location: West Java

Re: Cargodist to limited-capacity stations

Post by YNM »

krtaylor wrote:A passenger who is in the city at the top of the short arm, who wants to go to the city at the top of the long arm, will first have to travel down the short arm to get to the vertex city, change trains there, and then ride back up the long arm to get to where he's going. Thus, the entire first trip down the short arm is in the wrong direction.
Does this create a "cost" to that train, since the passenger ends up further away than he was?
No, but of course you get smaller returns for that particular kind of journey - the train travels the extra miles while the passenger only pay for the shortest distance (not sure is it manhattan distance or not). Of course, when averaged out, your trains still can generate more income from the shorter travels. I use this a lot - my local lines are quite bendy, but of course after a while I'll introduce direct express trains for the main cities.
YNM = yoursNotMine - Don't get it ?
「ヨーッスノットマイン」もと申します。
Eddi
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 8258
Joined: 17 Jan 2007 00:14

Re: Cargodist to limited-capacity stations

Post by Eddi »

yes, payment is calculated based on manhattan distance.
User avatar
krtaylor
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 11784
Joined: 07 Feb 2003 01:58
Location: Texas, USA
Contact:

Re: Cargodist to limited-capacity stations

Post by krtaylor »

So is there a negative payment for a feeder train moving passengers a negative manhattan distance? It sounds like there is, sort of.
Development Projects Site:
http://www.as-st.com/ttd
Japan, American Transition, Planeset, and Project Generic Stations available there
Alberth
OpenTTD Developer
OpenTTD Developer
Posts: 4763
Joined: 09 Sep 2007 05:03
Location: home

Re: Cargodist to limited-capacity stations

Post by Alberth »

No, distances between two points are always non-negative.

What may happen is that your train takes too long to deliver the passengers or cargo, at which time the cargo payment is less than the running cost of the engine, so you 'll end up having a negative result.

Edit: In case of feeder systems, the game more often over-estimates your profits during the trip, and reserves too much money for the first legs of the journey.
Post Reply

Return to “OpenTTD Suggestions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests