Game turnning point

[T_Tycoon]

Hello, I played this game for more than 3 years but there's no big changes were made to the game so I suggest to make big changes in the game. Look at this pictures:

It's from Transport Giant. There are new games are made every year and they are all good like Battlefield 3 with HD graphic and I don't want OTTD to stay in this form forever. I suggest to:
1. Making new HD graphics.
2. Improving railway roads to be more real.
3. Increase the size of the squaers which we build things in to make the new HD graphics appear better.
We can make an advertisement in the game website to ask everyone to work in the new expansion. If there's no graphic designers in this game, if it's possible you can search for free HD graphics or ask anyone to design graphics. All this things should be added to the main game release.
I know what I ask is hard to achieve but if you made this, many players will join the game and the game will be better a lot then you can return to fixing bugs. If I were a programmer, I'd help you a lot.

[Level Crossing]

How would this improve the game? Better graphics don't necessarily mean that the game will be amazing. And if we wanted better graphics, we'd play Locomotion or something else.

[T_Tycoon]

How would this improve the game? Better graphics don't necessarily mean that the game will be amazing. And if we wanted better graphics, we'd play Locomotion or something else.

Locomotion'sn't free and it's better to pay for Transport Giant. It's graphics'sn't better. What about improving OTTD to be like Transport Giant which's better? We can start with graphics: Make it HD and redesigning stations and buildings to be more real. We can increase the size of squares. We can make company HQ ubgradable. Every ubgrade'll give the player some advantages.

[lawton27]

Haven't heard this suggestion before

It's not happening.

OTTD is supposed to be the style it is, if you want some fancy hd game and you care about graphics so much as crossing says play those games which already exist. I do know of a couple of new projects to create games in HD in TTD style, check out the of topic board, one is called P1Sim and I can't remember the other.

[T_Tycoon]

Haven't heard this suggestion before

It's not happening.

OTTD is supposed to be the style it is, if you want some fancy hd game and you care about graphics so much as crossing says play those games which already exist. I do know of a couple of new projects to create games in HD in TTD style, check out the of topic board, one is called P1Sim and I can't remember the other.

First, I'm not talking about graphics only. Graphics's n't everything. Second, OTTD really needs new graphics. Why is OTTD supposed to stay in its bad style? You can change it a lot and improve it if you get out of this style and limits.
Can you give me the projects website URL?

[ChillCore]

... I played this game for more than 3 years but there's no big changes were made ...

Did you just ...? You did.

May I suggest changing your attitude and doing some research before making such statements ... especially if you want the features you long for so much.

[Level Crossing]

Haven't heard this suggestion before

It's not happening.

OTTD is supposed to be the style it is, if you want some fancy hd game and you care about graphics so much as crossing says play those games which already exist. I do know of a couple of new projects to create games in HD in TTD style, check out the of topic board, one is called P1Sim and I can't remember the other.

First, I'm not talking about graphics only. Graphics's n't everything. Second, OTTD really needs new graphics. Why is OTTD supposed to stay in its bad style? You can change it a lot and improve it if you get out of this style and limits.

Who said they are bad? The fact that there are newer graphics does not mean that these should automatically be replaced.

Also, what about the people whose video cards cannot handle such advanced graphics?

And you say graphics are not the only thing. What else? The only thing you mentioned is " Improving railway roads to be more real." First of all, what is a railway road (it's either a railway or a road)? Secondly, what do you mean by improving it? Making turns more natural (this requires all existing newGRFs to be redrawn and recoded and also dramatically increases the amount of work all future artists will have to do)? Or something else?

And if there were no changes in the past 3 years, you are free to go play OTTD 0.6. Good luck with no AIs, an outdated order system, a (pretty much) illegally obtained set of graphics, and all the other things in the changelog...

[T_Tycoon]

... I played this game for more than 3 years but there's no big changes were made ...

Did you just ...? You did.

May I suggest changing your attitude and doing some research before making such statements ... especially if you want the features you long for so much.

Not really. I played it for a week, left it, Played it for another week afterr a year, left it and played it for another week after a year.

[Rubidium]

Yes, changing the graphics and mechanics of the game that drastically is definitely a turning point. You would basically be throwing away all content that has ever been generated for OpenTTD, except maybe the heightmaps. The rest will be utterly useless. And... with throwing away all the content you will essentially be throwing away the active community, which will likely fork and continue OpenTTD with support for that content. Even then, if a developer is interested in such a "world", then they are working on things like Transport Empire or P1SIM.

Having said that, people are free to take OpenTTD and replace the graphics and map model. However, nobody has done so and, in my opinion, nobody with a sane mind would do so as you will be battling a lot of small assumptions made about the game's structure all over the place. It would really be better to start from the ground off.

Regarding "big" changes. What constitutes a big change? Change the colour of all sprites might seem like a big change but is basically no change at all for the game. Also progressively playing the game makes you much less aware of all the changes that have happened. For example try to play OpenTTD 0.3.5 and I'd almost guarantee that you would find that version "unplayable", yet progressively no "big" changes have been made. Just the sum of a huge amount of small changes.

[kamnet]

Hello, I played this game for more than 3 years but there's no big changes were made to the game so I suggest to make big changes in the game.

Then apparently you've not been paying any attention. While perhaps there have been no "big" changes over the last there years, like Planetmaker said, there have been a LOT (and I mean A LOT) of small changes which have significantly and profoundly improved game play. Between official releases and unofficial patches here's some of the improvements that I can count:

1. New graphics (OpenGFX), new sounds (OpenSFX), new music (OpenMSX) - all open source replacements for the original TTD graphics/sounds/music, which made it possible for this project to be completely free and open source, and distributable through many legal channels.
2. Improvement in gameplay through CargoDist and YACD for improved handling of passengers, mail and all other cargoes.
3. Fixing of LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS of bugs, glitches, graphics errors from the original TTD game.
4. Addition of ECS Vectors and FIRS industry game sets to introduce new industries.
5. Lots and LOTS and LOTS of new graphics via NewGrf and NewObjects that players can choose to use - vehicles, trains, planes, landscape, infrastructure & more.
6. Improved AI opponents and the recently-added game scripting/goals.

I suggest to: 1. Making new HD graphics. (not extra zoon).

The 32bpp projects has been underway for the last few years and, while not turning out work in a very quick manner, is slowly churning away at creating HD/3D model replacements for the base sprites.

2. Improving railway roads to be more real.
3. Increase the size of the squaers which we build things in to make the new HD graphics appear better.

Feel free to start downloading the code and doing this. It's only been suggested and looked at many times over the last three years. If you can find a way to do it that no other developers can (developers who are extremely intimate about the code), they will welcome your help!

I know what I ask is hard to achieve but if you made this, many players will join the game and the game will be better a lot then you can return to fixing bugs. If I were a programmer, I'd help you a lot.

Yes, I'm sure the programmers and graphics developers are all aware of what the end results can me. They're not just sitting here twiddling their thumbs.

My only question to you is... why aren't you helping? There's nothing stopping you from becoming a programmer. EVERYBODY who is a programmer in the project today started out with the same amount of knowledge that you have. The only difference between them and you is that they took initiative into their own hands and they took the time to study, learn, and try. If you have the desire to make this program better, all you have to do is muster the courage to do so.

[FooBar]

oh, but the game is already HD for quite some time...

Just get a full-hd or hd-ready screen, set the appropriate screen res, put OpenTTD in full screen mode and there you have it: OpenTTD in HD. At least by the definition of HD, which only defines the resolution to be used and absolutely nothing about what is actually displayed on the screen.

[Expresso]

Of course! HD graphics are the future. Why not package them using XML and stream them to the screen using HDMI while utilizing the graphics adapter for fully optimized rendering. This will give an increase in performance allowing the threads to execute independently.

Stop listening to all the buzz words and start using the contents of your skull!

[planetmaker]

Hello, I played this game for more than 3 years but there's no big changes were made to the game so I suggest to make big changes in the game. Look at this pictures:(...)

1. Making new HD graphics. (not extra zoon).
2. Improving railway roads to be more real.
3. Increase the size of the squaers which we build things in to make the new HD graphics appear better.

You're heartily invited to grab your graphics programme or your source editor of choice and start with what you consider in need of attention or rework. You might skip point 3, it's nearly done.

We can make an advertisement in the game website to ask everyone to work in the new expansion. If there's no graphic designers in this game, if it's possible you can search for free HD graphics or ask anyone to design graphics. All this things should be added to the main game release.
I know what I ask is hard to achieve but if you made this, many players will join the game and the game will be better a lot then you can return to fixing bugs. If I were a programmer, I'd help you a lot.

It's always easy to suggest "big" changes and end with "... I would help you (but I can't)". Besides I'm fully with Rubidium: we shall not break backward compatibility in that extensive manner with existing content, for exactly the reasons he outlines. Writing a new game in that case would be more fruitful.

Given that your main issue seems with the graphics style: OpenTTD can support totally different graphics, it also supports 32bpp, it "just" needs creating them. As you talk of "we", thus please get started, quite honestly. The amount of 32bpp content is so far not overwhelmingly large and a decent and complete 32bpp set could be a very nice addition.

[doktorhonig]

oh, but the game is already HD for quite some time...

Just get a full-hd or hd-ready screen, set the appropriate screen res, put OpenTTD in full screen mode and there you have it: OpenTTD in HD. At least by the definition of HD, which only defines the resolution to be used and absolutely nothing about what is actually displayed on the screen.

Yeah, and HD is actually not the future, but the past: http://xkcd.com/732/

[belugas]

My two cents thoughs on the matter:

Why should OpenTTD change its look and feel to something that will be like all the other programs on the same matter?
TTD is a very distinctive and recognizable "world", that has been kept alive and which evolved a lot, thanks to the newgrf additions.
If it gets "improved" (like suggested by the op), how would it it any different than the others? I believe it will loose its soul, connection from its root. It will stop being OpenTTD.

The gain? will look cool, like the other games. what a gain
WRONG
To my point of view...

And I believe there are many sharing my opinion, since the program is still played, still developped and still distributed.

[T_Tycoon]

Hello, I played this game for more than 3 years but there's no big changes were made to the game so I suggest to make big changes in the game.

Then apparently you've not been paying any attention. While perhaps there have been no "big" changes over the last there years, like Planetmaker said, there have been a LOT (and I mean A LOT) of small changes which have significantly and profoundly improved game play. Between official releases and unofficial patches here's some of the improvements that I can count:

1. New graphics (OpenGFX), new sounds (OpenSFX), new music (OpenMSX) - all open source replacements for the original TTD graphics/sounds/music, which made it possible for this project to be completely free and open source, and distributable through many legal channels.
2. Improvement in gameplay through CargoDist and YACD for improved handling of passengers, mail and all other cargoes.
3. Fixing of LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS of bugs, glitches, graphics errors from the original TTD game.
4. Addition of ECS Vectors and FIRS industry game sets to introduce new industries.
5. Lots and LOTS and LOTS of new graphics via NewGrf and NewObjects that players can choose to use - vehicles, trains, planes, landscape, infrastructure & more.
6. Improved AI opponents and the recently-added game scripting/goals.

Hello, I played this game for more than 3 years but there's no big changes were made to the game so I suggest to make big changes in the game. Look at this pictures:(...)

1. Making new HD graphics. (not extra zoon).
2. Improving railway roads to be more real.
3. Increase the size of the squaers which we build things in to make the new HD graphics appear better.

You're heartily invited to grab your graphics programme or your source editor of choice and start with what you consider in need of attention or rework. You might skip point 3, it's nearly done.

And it's most of the work (80%). All what you need now's to:
1. Improving reailway roads to be like picture 1 in the first post.
2. Making new HD graphics (and keeping the old OpenGFX).
Then you can test it and release it.

...You would basically be throwing away all content that has ever been generated for OpenTTD, except maybe the heightmaps. The rest will be utterly useless. And... with throwing away all the content you will essentially be throwing away the active community, which will likely fork and continue OpenTTD with support for that content...

All what they'll need to do's doing small changes to make their contents comptable.

My only question to you is... why aren't you helping? There's nothing stopping you from becoming a programmer. EVERYBODY who is a programmer in the project today started out with the same amount of knowledge that you have. The only difference between them and you is that they took initiative into their own hands and they took the time to study, learn, and try. If you have the desire to make this program better, all you have to do is muster the courage to do so.

When I become a programmer, I'll really help a lot but think of the advantages of the suggestion:
1. Making the game more beautifull: When someone play the game for the first time, he'll see attractive graphics which will encourage him to continue playing the game. Graphics are an important thing in the game.
2. Making the game look more real: When someone see the game's more real and descent, he'll like it and the gameplay'll be better.
3. Increasing the number of players: When someone play a game with attractive graphics and a descent gameplay, he may like the game and he may tell other people about it. Count the game players in all servers and say if it'll pass 300 players as maximum.
4. The game'll be able to compete with other purchased games.

If it gets "improved" (like suggested by the op), how would it it any different than the others? I believe it will loose its soul, connection from its root. It will stop being OpenTTD.

I think it'll give it a new soul. I'm not talking about changing the whole game. I meant to improve it with what it's fit with it.

[lawton27]

When I become a programmer, I'll really help a lot but think of the advantages of the suggestion:
1. Making the game more beautifull: When someone play the game for the first time, he'll see attractive graphics which will encourage him to continue playing the game. Graphics are an important thing in the game.
2. Making the game look more real: When someone see the game's more real and descent, he'll like it and the gameplay'll be better.
3. Increasing the number of players: When someone play a game with attractive graphics and a descent gameplay, he may like the game and he may tell other people about it. Count the game players in all servers and say if it'll pass 300 player as maximum.
4. The game'll be able to compete with other purchased games.

I think you underestimate the amount of work involved, good luck with becoming a programmer and jumping straight into complex 3 dimensional game conversion....

1) What's wrong with the graphics as they stand personally I think they look great, many people appreciate pixel art...

2) The game cannot look real based of the many assumptions and scale inaccuracies in the isometric world....

3) I don't think 'improved' graphics would increase players people who want to play OTTD are people who want to play an open source clone of Transport Tycoon Deluxe which is what it is....

4) OTTD is different, no (not many) professional games aim at the same audience as OTTD does, I doubt graphics would improve market share drastically....

[T_Tycoon]

When I become a programmer, I'll really help a lot but think of the advantages of the suggestion:
1. Making the game more beautifull: When someone play the game for the first time, he'll see attractive graphics which will encourage him to continue playing the game. Graphics are an important thing in the game.
2. Making the game look more real: When someone see the game's more real and descent, he'll like it and the gameplay'll be better.
3. Increasing the number of players: When someone play a game with attractive graphics and a descent gameplay, he may like the game and he may tell other people about it. Count the game players in all servers and say if it'll pass 300 player as maximum.
4. The game'll be able to compete with other purchased games.

I think you underestimate the amount of work involved, good luck with becoming a programmer and jumping straight into complex 3 dimensional game conversion....

1) What's wrong with the graphics as they stand personally I think they look great, many people appreciate pixel art...

2) The game cannot look real based of the many assumptions and scale inaccuracies in the isometric world....

3) I don't think 'improved' graphics would increase players people who want to play OTTD are people who want to play an open source clone of Transport Tycoon Deluxe which is what it is....

4) OTTD is different, no (not many) professional games aim at the same audience as OTTD does, I doubt graphics would improve market share drastically....

1. I hope one day I'll help to develop the game.
2. Compare the 3 pictures I upload with OTTD graphics.
3. It's not necessary to make it more real. I think making better graphics (like the 3 pictures)'d be enough to make the game attractive and fit the game.
4. Graphics's very important. If you made a very good game with bad graphics, few people'd play it.

[planetmaker]

3. Increase the size of the squaers which we build things in to make the new HD graphics appear better.

(...) You might skip point 3, it's nearly done.

And it's most of the work (80%).[/quote]
Do you believe so? My guestimate is: it's less than 1%.

Making a complete usable graphics set in 8bpp took approx. 2 years for a team of graphics artists. It requires around 10k sprites at least. Multiply that by zoom levels (4x, 2x, 1x).

Changing the rails to have these curves (do you think these curves are "realistic" wrt the depicted train sizes?) it will require heavy modification of path finders and a rework of the internal representation of the map at least. One also might want to consider to introduce additional views for the vehicles. All projects of considerable size.

I'd say "get going". We appreciate your input, but great ideas of what other shall do... that's easy; you'll be so many more times convincing with your ideas if you start working for them. It will also show you the bear traps in your grand train of thoughts.

[andythenorth]

When I become a programmer, I'll really help a lot.

I look forward to your commits eagerly.