train consist

[Malwatt]

Is there a way, using "Manage list, replace vehicles", to add carriages, e.g. more passenger carriages to all trains in a particular list?
Or to remove carriages, e.g. Brake Van, when no longer required?

[FooBar]

I was going to say "short answer: no", but there actually isn't a long answer. It's simply not possible. There have been some ideas about template based replacement, but that never lead to a practical implementation.

[Malwatt]

Well, we can't all be perfect, can we? How about a way of finding out what vehicles are added by each new GRF that's downloaded?

[Alberth]

Use one vehicle newgrf at a time

Using multiple vehicle newgrfs is not so useful, they are not designed to be used together. Costs and capacities are not balanced.

[FooBar]

If you want a list of all vehicles, set the "vehicles never expire" advanced setting and start a new game in say year 3000.

[Malwatt]

Thanks for both nuggets of information. I had got round to setting up one set of vehicles only but hadn't twigged to the "never expire" trick. Also I didn't appreciate that using more than one set of vehicles at a time would mean unbalanced loading. I had noticed speed differences and elected for the fastest on each selection.
Which set of ships would you recommend for extended use?

[FooBar]

Which set of ships would you recommend for extended use?

FISH

[chuggles]

I suppose what we really need is an option to 'add or remove X amount of Y carriages to all the trains on this list'. Would that be feasible?

I'm thinking about times when you might want to double up the engines, or change a train's purpose entirely. I know this will be of most interest to those of using NewGRFs where, for example, a steam engine pulling three carriages and a mail van changes to a train of three EMUs one of which is configured to carry mail, but none the less it's a feature I'd certainly like to see in the main game.

[keoz]

I suppose what we really need is an option to 'add or remove X amount of Y carriages to all the trains on this list'. Would that be feasible?

Feasible, undoubtedly yes.

The question would more be: how many time building a such patch would take you.

[chuggles]

I suppose the action 'build vehicles/attach them to a train' already exists seeing as we the player use it all the time - would the difficulty by 'automating' this?

[Alberth]

Pretty much, I think

In general, several autoreplace operations may be running at the same time, so the first problem when a train enters a depot, is to recognize the train, that is, decide if any replace rule applies, and if so, which one(s).
Perhaps a train with 3 wood wagons must be made longer, while a train with 3 wood wagons and a food wagon must get a new engine.
For extra fun, a train with a food wagon directly after the engine may need to be replaced by another wood wagon.

Of course, it all depends on how fancy you want to make it. But what is easy to spot by us is much less easy to explain to a computer.
(Imagine you have to explain a more complex replacement rule to someone else by explaining in text, instead of a picture.)


Secondly, once you have convinced the computer what replace rules to apply, you get the problem of expressing how and what to replace.
A simple form would be a list "replace vehicle number X (1=engine, 2=first wagon, etc) by this and this vehicle".
Easy for a computer, but I am quite sure, a user gets crazy having to count wagon index numbers, and typing all these numbers.

There is a large gap between how a user thinks and how a computer calculates. Secondly, once you have decided the above rules, you have to push them into an easy to use gui window.


Another approach is to ditch all these detailed stuff, and step one level up, with consists.
A user build a train as a template, and builds another train as replacement example. Then he says "replace this train by that one".
I believe this would be sufficient intuitive to a user.
However currently you cannot build a train as example without really building it. A train can only exist as a real train (with profits, sitting in a depot, with running costs, and a reliability value).
To enable building a train as example, the train concept needs to be split between "virtual train layout" and "real train". I once tried to make a little step in that direction, and immediately got stuck on the complicated autoreplace code with all its NewGRF weirdnesses.

[chuggles]

Hmmm ... saved train templates sound like a really useful thing to work on, having quite a few applications. And also saved 'routes' that could be applied to any train. I once tried to play Simutrans which I believe has these features and it was extremely slow, so I dunno.

[Malwatt]

Meanwhile, for a completely changed train,e.g. replacing a diesel loco hauled passenger consist with an EMU, the work around is to build the replacement train, call the trains to be replaced into the depot. Copy the route from the first to arrive onto the new train and send it out, then scrap the old train. As each subsequent old train returns to the depot, clone and send out the new train and scrap the old. OK, so it takes some time, depending on the route length, but does have the advantage of repopulating the route at around the same density as previously.