Signal bug?

[Field-Mouse]

Hi!
First of all, my thanks goes to all the people who made OTTD, and the people around it! Its wonderful!

However there is one thing thats been bugging me for quite a while now. I can see how the usefulness is pretty limited but I still dont think a regular signal should act as an exit signal as it does in the picture below. Is this a bug or is it for some reason intended to be this way?
I have stumbled upon several cases where I THINK it would have been very useful if regular signals only acted as regular signals and not like exits.
If its intended to be this way, then maybe the description should be rephrased, it sure seems like a bug to me the way it is now.
Thanks in advance for any answers!

[Eddi]

i'm not sure what you mean, but a "pre-signal" does not restrict in any way where the train may go.

the only semantics of a "pre-signal" is to turn red when all "exit signals" are red. there is no red "exit signal" in your block, so the "pre-signal" behaves like any other signal.

[Field-Mouse]

There is an exit signal, by the train, but there are regular signals between the entry and exit.

[Eddi]

exactly, the sogmaös are not in the same block, so they do not influence each other. the signals would completely stop working otherwise, as a "pre-signal" would be connected to EVERY "exit signal" on the whole map, which would make it useless.

[Field-Mouse]

Couldnt they just ignore the regular signals? They would only have to be connected to 1 exit on each track going out from the crossing, like allways. Search for the first exit on each track and stop there.
I dont know how the code works but from a game-play perspective that would be most logical I think...

EDIT::
In other words, I think it would be better if the pre-signals hade seperate "signal blocks" than the regular ones. Independent of each other.

[Eddi]

i really have no idea what you are talking about... maybe you want to try "path signals" instead?

[Roujin]

He means that the entry-presignal in his image should ignore the normal signals inbetween and react on the exit-presignal to the right.

[Field-Mouse]

He means that the entry-presignal in his image should ignore the normal signals inbetween and react on the exit-presignal to the right.

Exactly! Like in block 1 in this picture, Im not very good explaining stuff but I hope it will help you understand what kind of effect Im after.
Block 1 in first picture doesnt work the way I (and others?) expect it to.

[planetmaker]

What's the point of the normal signals at those places, if the entry signals to those tracks shall be red anyway according to your suggestion?

[Field-Mouse]

What's the point of the normal signals at those places, if the entry signals to those tracks shall be red anyway according to your suggestion?

Well like I said it would provide limited usefulness, but in some cases it can prove useful. Besides its actually mostly about the fact that it seems illogical and confusing, especially before you know how they really work.
However, heres an example, maybe not a good one but still =).
If the track is long enough there will be time for more than one train to enter the same "pre-signal block" as shown in the pic (not realistic lenghts though). In this situation track 4 would have been the only green one in the crossing, thereby providing free track for the trains.
Point is, with long enough track and little bit of luck, several trains could fit in the same block while still providing alternate tracks in a good way. Maybe theres better ways, but its a game so there should be different ways to do things, right?
Am I really the only one who thinks it would make A LOT more sense this way? If I am, im ready to let it go, hehe =P
As I said, I love the game, and this is no biggie so... Well, its just a suggestion, think it would more logical...

[planetmaker]

With your example you'd achieve what you want (as I understand you), if you put the exit signals immediately after the combo signals (or replace those by exit signals)

[Eddi]

i don't think you have thought this suggestion through properly. in your last picture, how would these "non-broken" trains have got where they are right now if the entry signal was red whenever a train is behind the exit signal? (which is basically ALL the time). what you are suggesting is basically removing all normal signals, they would have absolutely no effect anymore.

[Eddi]

To support my earlier point, the picture below shows THE standard use-case for pre- and exit signals.

MacDonald & Co., 19. Apr 1940.png (68.88 KiB) Viewed 1960 times

Now, if the change you are suggesting would be implemented, the entry signal, that is currently red, would be green, because it would listen to all 4 exit signals connected to this signal, of which only 3 are red, so there is a green exit signal (with no other exit signal before). hence the train that is waiting in front of this signal would get stuck.

[Field-Mouse]

To support my earlier point, the picture below shows THE standard use-case for pre- and exit signals.

MacDonald & Co., 19. Apr 1940.png

Now, if the change you are suggesting would be implemented, the entry signal, that is currently red, would be green, because it would listen to all 4 exit signals connected to this signal, of which only 3 are red, so there is a green exit signal (with no other exit signal before). hence the train that is waiting in front of this signal would get stuck.

Thanx for showing and explaining that one!
Never thought about that, since I never build my stations that way (mine are allways one-way).
Ok, so I can see how it could be a problem. Ill just accept the way it is and go on playing OTTD instead
I´ve also tried out the new path signals, and they solve A LOT of problems and makes things A LOT less complex!
Thanks for your answers, I´ve got a feeling I wont be quite so annoyed by the issue anymore, since you guys pointed out a few things to me