Forced upgrade from OpenTTD 1.0.0 w/ same GRF: some issues

[MarkieMadMan]

Hello,

I have been perfectly happy with my single OpenTTD 1.0.0 game for years now, growing, growing, until I hit the global ~65k (integer 16bit?) max cars/sections for vehicles/trains. I was simply forced to upgrade to continu any further, even though I didn't hit the 5000 train limit yet (was at ~2665 trains, 12.0 length = 24 cars). QUESTION ZERO: Is there an OpenTTD 1.0.0 release with this limit raised?

At the moment, the last version is 1.3.3, so I downloaded & extracted that. I copied the same openttd.grf and the 'oilgoup' grf (same file, so still GRF ID 535A1344), the \data subdir is now called \baseset, start game.

But when I load my game, it says 'compatible GRF found' and the game starts. QUESTION 1: Why 'compatible' if they are the same?
The Chimaera reliability however is now suddenly 77%, while it used to be 100% for the last 200 years (yes, ingame ). QUESTION 2: Why and how can I make the game continu with the original savegame reliability values? QUESTION 3: Searched for more info on 'vehicles never expire': It used to be on OFF, but for the last 200 years I kept 2 rail, 2 monorail and 4 maglev trains (on-going with peak reliability), are those still excluded? Does this option prevent type-reliability decrease after reaching peak reliability to 0% or only the disappearance of the type (available, but unusable bad)?

Positive notion: building more train sections is once-again possible! The savegame is accepted!

Pathfinding:
QUESTION 4: I saw a train with (maybe faulty) orders bump into a small EOL (end of line) track segment back and forth to the back of his last one-way path signal. I have never seen this in 1.0.0, is this now normal?

The same happened at a standard station-layout with a shared front entrance/exit. ( like: )
It just kept bumping between the platform and the back of the 'IN' one-way path signal, and after 10 times thus blocking a lot of in/out capacity it decides to take the exit finally. Isn't the back of a one-way path signal a CLEAR EOL which a train should NEVER even be able to choose? Seems to waste CPU if these directions are now in 1.3.3 even calculated/considered.

I see some 'better' (optimized) things in 1.3.3, but am amazed at how NEAR PERFECT version 1.0.0 already was!!!

QUESTION 5: Is a savegame flagged for cheating if one uses the console at all or the 'resetengines' command or can it be safely used in a serious game to get 100% Chimaera back?

Joined the forum, Hopefully there is someone out here who can help. I wasted (not really) years of my life (yes really) on this savegame!

[planetmaker]

Is there an OpenTTD 1.0.0 release with this limit raised?

That wouldn't be 1.0.0 anymore. So: there cannot even exist such version.

the \data subdir is now called \baseset, start game.

No, it's not. Please have a look at readme, section 4.2. NewGRFs go in newgrfs, base sets in basesets. The data directory also continues to work.
So you moved them to the wrong place. But if you read the lines 267-299 of that readme, you'll also see that you won't need to copy anything, if your NewGRFs etc. are in global place, e.g. under C:\Users\<username>\Documents\OpenTTD Then you can even nicely use the same grfs, base set etc. for both (or all) versions of OpenTTD without the need to copy anything anywhere.

But when I load my game, it says 'compatible GRF found' and the game starts. QUESTION 1: Why 'compatible' if they are the same?

You probably have a different version of the NewGRF in the search path but not the identical one. They are only considered identical when it's identical to the byte. In earlier years authors often 'fixed' their released NewGRFs when they spotted a minor bug and didn't give it another version or no version at all.

[MarkieMadMan]

thank you for your (very quick I might add) reply. With your information I found that if I replace the for 1.3.3 downloaded_content Nightlyv5092 baseset with the original 1.0.0 \data directory and start the game, I get a message that some sprites are missing. QUESTION 6: Could it be that the message for the 'compatible GRFs found' can be about the baseset and not for the 'oilgoup' grf, which I never replaced a version/file for, so it must be the EXACT same version/checksum as during 1.0.0?

QUESTION 7: Alternatively, can it be that an upgrade to 1.3.3 will ALWAYS start looking for 'compatible GRFs', even though they are the same, since it is upgrading the savegame to the new OpenTTD version?

QUESTION 8: In what file are the original town-trees that grow besides the roads, I got used to their original look? Maybe I can try to override some file in the new 1.3.3 needed Nightly set and get them back without losing the 1.3.3 needed sprites.

thx

[planetmaker]

thank you for your (very quick I might add) reply. With your information I found that if I replace the for 1.3.3 downloaded_content Nightlyv5092 baseset with the original 1.0.0 \data directory and start the game, I get a message that some sprites are missing. QUESTION 6: Could it be that the message for the 'compatible GRFs found' can be about the baseset and not for the 'oilgoup' grf, which I never replaced a version/file for, so it must be the EXACT same version/checksum as during 1.0.0?

QUESTION 7: Alternatively, can it be that an upgrade to 1.3.3 will ALWAYS start looking for 'compatible GRFs', even though they are the same, since it is upgrading the savegame to the new OpenTTD version?

QUESTION 8: In what file are the original town-trees that grow besides the roads, I got used to their original look? Maybe I can try to override some file in the new 1.3.3 needed Nightly set and get them back without losing the 1.3.3 needed sprites.

thx

The message about missing sprites, that comes from a too old version of your baseset in use; base sets used for 1.0.0 have not all sprites needed to play an 1.3 or 1.4 game. The message about compatible GRFs found comes from NewGRFs, though. And if they're identical, they won't tell you that they use compatible ones.

The town trees usually are defined in the base set you use. But any NewGRF can re-define them. So: depends on what you use.

[MarkieMadMan]

A new issue: Acceleration.

1.0.0: took 12 squares to do 400km/h, with 40,000 hp and 1500ton weight, now in 1.3.3 it takes 22 squares!
500 km/h: now 32 squares - vs 17 before upgrade
max (643km/h): now 52 vs 27

So: distance_new = distance_old * 2 - 2

that's about halved! Now I don't care, EXCEPT that in 1.0.0 the savegame grew to about 10,000 signals in the right spacing for the old accel, so... I kind of DO care. The setting is on weight factor 1 already, so can not be decreased. 3% is for hills, so that's not relevant.

QUESTION 9: How can I get the old acceleration back?
QUESTION 10: How about a setting like weight factor tat can be tuned from 1 to 10, with 1 being almost instant accel and 10 being very slow? Let everybody has their own cup of tea, I see many discussions about too slow, too fast, etc.

*wave*

[Lord Aro]

...I copied the same openttd.grf ...

I'm not sure you should have done this. IIRC, openttd.grf is specific to each OTTD version - Just use the one that comes with the 1.3.3 download

[planetmaker]

...I copied the same openttd.grf ...

I'm not sure you should have done this. IIRC, openttd.grf is specific to each OTTD version - Just use the one that comes with the 1.3.3 download

Yeah. Never copy to other places like global data dirs the files OpenTTD ships with.

As to the other questions: Not sure whether you take one savegame and open it in both versions and compare results or whether you create new savegames with each version and compare results. The latter *will* make differences for things where defaults changed. See the settings for that. Not sure, it's 4 years since, there might also have been a fix that acceleration was not treated properly which might have been fixed between 1.0.0 and now.

[MarkieMadMan]

thank you for all the information.

QUESTION 11: I used ' download content' to get the latest Nightly. Is there a version which has the original graphics?
QUESTION 12: Why would anybody change the original graphics if it doesn't add any functionality (for example more bulky trees along the city road, that are not able to be removed by transparency) when these are GRF's for this for those who DO want it?

[FLHerne]

QUESTION 11: I used ' download content' to get the latest Nightly. Is there a version which has the original graphics?
QUESTION 12: Why would anybody change the original graphics if it doesn't add any functionality (for example more bulky trees along the city road, that are not able to be removed by transparency) when these are GRF's for this for those who DO want it?

Same answer for both questions, really.
The original TTD graphics are the copyright of Microprose (or their successors). Distributing them online violates that copyright, and is illegal - individuals might get away with it, but definitely not a large and conspicuous project like OTTD.
That means they can't be bundled with the game, nor distributed via the online content (or anywhere else legally), whereas OpenGFX and the other open graphics sets can be.

Also, OGFX just looks better, especially with the OpenGFX+ addon grfs.

[MarkieMadMan]

ok, thanks I didn't know that. I downloaded OpenTTD 1.0.0 and had the original graphics, but maybe I used my original TTD files, don't know, was long ago.

QUESTION 13 (lucky number 13): How do I get the graphics of the original TTD in these latest versions of OpenTTD? The game says sprites are missing and as others pointed out above, it's a bad idea to use the OpenTTD 1.0.0 set (which was either inserted from the original TTD or also downloaded at the time).
QUESTION 14: Really, still copyright, on that prehistoric version? When does it end and why don't they just offer it to be used freely by now?

[kamnet]

When OpenTTD 1.0.0 was released, OpenGFX was available, but many people still used copies of the original TTD graphics. If you still have those files, the directions for installing and enabling them are in the README file that comes with OpenTTD. If you do not have them, there are ways to find them online, but as mentioned the files are still copyrighted and if you didn't pay for the game, it's illegal for you to do so.

Under US law, copyright is for 95 years after the creation of the work. Copyright law may be longer or shorter in your country, but it's very likely that it is not yet expired, wherever you are. Those graphics are owned by Chris Sawyer, the original creator of Transport Tycoon, Locomotion and Roller Coaster Tycoon. He is still publishing those titles.

As for the message about missing sprites, update your version of OpenGFX. Version 0.5.0 was just released.

[planetmaker]

ok, thanks I didn't know that. I downloaded OpenTTD 1.0.0 and had the original graphics, but maybe I used my original TTD files, don't know, was long ago.

QUESTION 13 (lucky number 13): How do I get the graphics of the original TTD in these latest versions of OpenTTD? The game says sprites are missing and as others pointed out above, it's a bad idea to use the OpenTTD 1.0.0 set (which was either inserted from the original TTD or also downloaded at the time).
QUESTION 14: Really, still copyright, on that prehistoric version? When does it end and why don't they just offer it to be used freely by now?

Copyright ends usually 70 years after the death of the creator. Or 95 years. Thus you can probably expect it to be copyright free in the year 2150. Or something around that, depends on country. Say thanks to your politicians and the lobby groups.

If you use the TTD base graphics and you have missing sprites, you copied your openttd.grf to a wrong place and use one from an old OpenTTD - delete them from the global places. You get the TTD graphics the same way you got it for 1.0.0. Consult readme, chapter 4 for places to put those grf files (baseset folder - but you consulted the readme before you asked and just overlooked that, right?). If you use either OpenGFX or zBase and you get the 'missing sprites' warning, update those via ingame content download.

[MarkieMadMan]

Thank you for your time and trouble. 95 years is a LONG time, wow. Well, I guess Chris Sawyer can always gets enthousiastic seeing the new, improved TTD, realizes nobody want the original anymore and decides himself to make it all public for free!

[Phreeze]

not his game alone, so he can't decide