Consequences of Fiscal Prudence

[Baldy's Boss]

I note that my quirk of seeking to get my bank debt paid off ASAP has sent me down in the standings in the Tillydean game,as a NiceCAB that has been buying horse carriages with borrowed money has taken first place.By some measures I'm better off and wouldn't trade places,but I wonder how great the penalty is for trying to stand on your own and buy only with earned money.

[Eddi]

trying to stand on your own and buy only with earned money.

only people who failed capitalism class think this is a great idea. like swabian housewives.

[kamnet]

trying to stand on your own and buy only with earned money.

only people who failed capitalism class think this is a great idea. like swabian housewives.

Or the old American colloquialism, "pulling yourself up by your boot straps".

[Kevo00]

Keynesian paradox of thrift innit.

I used to think like this but while I don't always take out more debt I rarely bother trying to repay. I often just leave that £100k debt on the books forever because the interest is low. If I do repay its usually because I want to avoid maxing out my limit and so that I can have the option of taking that debt out again later. More realistic to have some sort of capital anyway.

[Gremnon]

I usually repay it, but then I also don't seem to find it difficult to pay off. A few industries served by low running cost trucks usually manages, or if I just don't want to wait, a coal train never fails to handle it in a year or two.
OTOH, sometimes I just can't be bothered to deal with it and will cheat in money instead, but those games usually don't last me long because it kinda makes things too easy.

[leifbk]

For a while I enjoyed the challenge of borrowing the absolute minimum amount of money, £10K, and get by on a shoestring budget with a handful of 4-horse mail wagons, and then invest all my earnings in more mail wagons, one by one, until the money started pouring in. It's totally feasible, but not a lot of fun in the long run. These days, I'll rather max out the loan limit and borrow whatever I need to get my business running. I've got a very laid-back gaming style, so after a few game years I tend to just sit and watch things, and pay back everything while planning my next step.

[Baldy's Boss]

Keynesian paradox of thrift innit.

I used to think like this but while I don't always take out more debt I rarely bother trying to repay. I often just leave that £100k debt on the books forever because the interest is low. If I do repay its usually because I want to avoid maxing out my limit and so that I can have the option of taking that debt out again later. More realistic to have some sort of capital anyway.

When you say capital,do you mean credit or debt?

I can see a case that Tillydean should be less shy about using borrowed money to open new routes,but can you honestly say that Malberg Mauve would have any use for borrowed money as attached?
Companies with loads of cash ought to have a way of earning interest.

[Lukenwolf]

Keynesian paradox of thrift innit.

I used to think like this but while I don't always take out more debt I rarely bother trying to repay. I often just leave that £100k debt on the books forever because the interest is low. If I do repay its usually because I want to avoid maxing out my limit and so that I can have the option of taking that debt out again later. More realistic to have some sort of capital anyway.

When you say capital,do you mean credit or debt?

I can see a case that Tillydean should be less shy about using borrowed money to open new routes,but can you honestly say that Malberg Mauve would have any use for borrowed money as attached?
Companies with loads of cash ought to have a way of earning interest.

Of course in real life a company would not leave their money to rot on a bank account. They would invest it some way or other. But that isn't quite the point of OpenTTD unless you want to turn it into a full-blown economic simulator. It's a nice litte idea for a massive patch, if there is enough interest.

[Kevo00]

Keynesian paradox of thrift innit.

I used to think like this but while I don't always take out more debt I rarely bother trying to repay. I often just leave that £100k debt on the books forever because the interest is low. If I do repay its usually because I want to avoid maxing out my limit and so that I can have the option of taking that debt out again later. More realistic to have some sort of capital anyway.

When you say capital,do you mean credit or debt?

I can see a case that Tillydean should be less shy about using borrowed money to open new routes,but can you honestly say that Malberg Mauve would have any use for borrowed money as attached?
Companies with loads of cash ought to have a way of earning interest.

I really mean some idea of equity or debt; I think investing in a OTTD company would be a good way of making money. I tend to imagine that the company is paying interest to some bond holders - definitely an AAA rated bond often. Of course its a transport sim not a governance sim; I wouldn't want to get too distracted by the stock market etc. as I often did in Railroad Tycoon 2, or Capitalism (where the stock market could be such a distraction you would forget about your products).

Mind if we had to pay out the cost of money in a realistic sense (either interest or dividends) it would probably stop OTTD companies from building up such massive bank balances. We live a charmed tax free live too of course. That's where A-Train was more realistic - you had to pay 50% corporation tax on your profits and I used to bury a lot of my profits into buying subsidiaries before the tax deadline. There was no option to move your HQ to the Cayman Islands to escape it either!

[Baldy's Boss]

I see the player as the sole owner of the company and the Manager-face as someone hired by the player.
Bonds with credit ratings based on your performance and variable interest rates (also fluctuating at random) on bank loans and bonds would be a welcome improvement.
Taking over other companies could do with some enhancement...now you have no control at all as 75% owner but at 100% they lose all distinct existence.

If only I could declare dividends from my successful OTTD companies!
Even if I had to pay a commission converting through Bitcoins and Linden dollars to get real world money.

[Alberth]

Write a game script that asks once a year how much dividend you want to pay to the stake holders?

[Baldy's Boss]

I got out of debt (delayed thanks to an ill-timed agreement to test out the new Coppernob engine) but the NiceCAB has now passed me in company value as well.
Other AIs have fared worse,so I figure I can win in the long haul.

[Baldy's Boss]

The company-value overtaking proved temporary,though I'm steadily behind on performance rating.
My competitors remain deep in debt while I'm solidly in the black.
I have a standing order to replace my old Norris engines that fails on "money limit" (where is that set again?) for the time being...Train 6 vs train 4 demonstrates the Coppernob vs Norris difference,the high-capacity (for the era) train slows to 1 mph with the less powerful engine and 10 mph with the more powerful engine when climbing up to Tillydean Woods.The faster Crampton and more powerful American are now available as well,but have higher running costs..I'm waiting for peak reliability on the American before I consider upgrading the replacement order.

[Baldy's Boss]

I continue to be in second place on performance,some money-losing recent years caused by investment but still out of debt.Train 11 may be unnecessary,though it seemed necessary when I bought it.

The obsolete Norris engines are finally out of service,but the Coppernobs are still in some cases hauling old wagons that can't go any faster...I am thinking a Crampton/American order may help the trains with faster wagons deliver more of the service so I can have more of a chance the slow wagons will be empty and replaceable without revenue loss.

[Baldy's Boss]

My being in first place in company value and second place on performance has been a long-term trend now.
I was briefly challenged for second place in performance but the company that did that fell on hard times (see the performance history graph).
I note that I am a pure-play railroad while the NiceCAB outstripping me in performance is a pure-play road vehicle operator.
I have actually amassed enough cash that I could buy out that NiceCAB if I wanted to but would it be a good deal?
Is there independent value in having multiple transportation modes in your portfolio or is doing one thing really well going to result in more prosperity?

[Baldy's Boss]

Still managing carefully,I recently took over the lead in revenue but spent a lot buying new coal trains.I note that the two largest towns now are served by my competitor (having outgrown the initial largest where I built my headquarters).
I'm still in second place in performance but have better margins.

Does my main competitor seem likely to fail?
Would there be a benefit in buying them?

EDIT...NEWSFLASH...it may be a blip,but I've reached first in performance,per newly added save.

[Baldy's Boss]

It now seems that I've finally established first-place status...and my competitor,maintaining a road-vehicle fleet at the limit,is losing money and has high infrastructure costs.I thought roads were cheaper than that.
At this stage I would NOT buy the competitor out.

[Baldy's Boss]

My first place was more precarious than I thought.
Still wouldn't trade places with competitor...would anyone else?

[Baldy's Boss]

SHOCKEROO!!

Just after seeming to reaffirm its lead over me in performance,the NiceCAB that has led me through most of the game was offered to me as a bankruptcy buy in March 1876.
I didn't bite,I have been doing better with my 38 trains than the AI with 574 wagons/carriages,but just how common is it for a company to be in first place AND failing at the same time?
I think I recall being there myself with Gondborough.

The AI went bankrupt in mid-June.

[Baldy's Boss]

With the demise of my competitor an interesting opportunity presented itself.
Grenthwaite Springs,built to largest-city status by my competitor's now-vanished service,became my focus for the second half of 1876 as I connected it to Dardingway by rail and populated the new route with trains.
I now had the cash to pay for this without going into debt.
My cash pile has plummeted,but my company value has soared.
Too early to tell how much return there will be on the investment but the company has reached forty years of age,and I hope 1876 is its last year of losses though future years of heavy fleet replacement may prevent that.

Any comments?