Is Wardwood Western Doomed?

[Baldy's Boss]

My Wardwood Western Railway seems to be entering the death spiral that claimed Betston Blue and Gondborough Rail.It was my first game using any NewGRF vehicles.
There are plenty of profitable operations but the maintenance bills have become lethal.The cash pile peaked in 2038 (same as Old Plonnville Green RR) and has lost 300 million.
What can be done to save this company?...what must go?

[Baldy's Boss]

I do think the lower margins on NewGRF vehicles have something to do with it (Rartown has trouble,but a bigger backlog of obsolete trains doesn't keep it from still being profitable).

Since inflation runs for 170 years,does having a really early start date or really futuristic NewGRF vehicles help because you can still be upgrading service when costs stop rising?

[Sylf]

I don't think it's completely doomed, but it'll take a lot of work to get to a good working state.
For one thing, the map has way too many point-to-point connections, and not enough network. Meaning, there are so much rail pieces, each of it cost so much to maintain, but so few trains running on them.

[Baldy's Boss]

I don't think it's completely doomed, but it'll take a lot of work to get to a good working state.
For one thing, the map has way too many point-to-point connections, and not enough network. Meaning, there are so much rail pieces, each of it cost so much to maintain, but so few trains running on them.

I've never seen a good primer on integrating point-to-point lines into shared networks.

[PikkaBird]

Since inflation runs for 170 years,does having a really early start date or really futuristic NewGRF vehicles help because you can still be upgrading service when costs stop rising?

Practically all newgrf vehicles are balanced without inflation (since the variable start date makes balancing with inflation impossible), so neither of these things will help, no.

I've never seen a good primer on integrating point-to-point lines into shared networks.

Probably the best way to learn how to build things would be by playing a game where you actually build things, rather than trying to piece together an empire out of bits of bankrupt AIs...

[Baldy's Boss]

Since inflation runs for 170 years,does having a really early start date or really futuristic NewGRF vehicles help because you can still be upgrading service when costs stop rising?

Practically all newgrf vehicles are balanced without inflation (since the variable start date makes balancing with inflation impossible), so neither of these things will help, no.

I've never seen a good primer on integrating point-to-point lines into shared networks.

Probably the best way to learn how to build things would be by playing a game where you actually build things, rather than trying to piece together an empire out of bits of bankrupt AIs...

I do a lot of internal growth but it's generally point-to-point.(I also don't wait for AIs to go bankrupt if they're giving me close competition and I have the cash to buy them out).The "networky" trains/lines I have tend to be bought with AIs.

[Kevo00]

Just looking around that map I can see loads of groups of point to point routes in various parts of the map, or even parallel point to point routes that could be easily integrated. There might not be much stuff on network building itself, but there is plenty written on junction building and the best way to learn is to do it yourself using path signals. Where there are groups of cities and industries together, always have trains running on shared tracks where possible. Look to develop main lines which serve many towns and industries. If playing against AI, your ability to network ought to be your competitive advantage as a human player.

I'm not sure the use of maglev where standard electrified or even non-electrified would be fine helps either. Especially where the maglev routes are short and under-utilised. Aim for long routes with fast vehicles for the best payoff.

See the attached for an example of the way I play - its not the fastest network, but its effective, my company is stable and profitable, and my infra costs low.

[Plord]

since i play ottd only once i have used AIs despite the fact that the game becomes more challenging and the maps breaths life.

Mainly because networking, building the Main Line, spacing trains, looking for the beauty of your layout, hipnotized WITH!!!!! the trains and path signals, bla bla bla....

i know it depends on your style of play, but taking some time as Monopoly gives you insight on how to build things.

[Baldy's Boss]

Just looking around that map I can see loads of groups of point to point routes in various parts of the map, or even parallel point to point routes that could be easily integrated. There might not be much stuff on network building itself, but there is plenty written on junction building and the best way to learn is to do it yourself using path signals. Where there are groups of cities and industries together, always have trains running on shared tracks where possible. Look to develop main lines which serve many towns and industries. If playing against AI, your ability to network ought to be your competitive advantage as a human player.

I'm not sure the use of maglev where standard electrified or even non-electrified would be fine helps either. Especially where the maglev routes are short and under-utilised. Aim for long routes with fast vehicles for the best payoff.

See the attached for an example of the way I play - its not the fastest network, but its effective, my company is stable and profitable, and my infra costs low.

That game has a dozen NewGRFs I don't have,which might conflict with my current mix!
Any particular places you can point out as good for pooling?
Current save attached.The road vehicles are basically gone now,I have to rip up their roads and stations to reduce maintenance costs...

[Alberth]

A savegame has its own list of NewGRFs, you can download new ones and run other games without risk of interference with your current game, as long as you don't delete NewGRF files that you need for the game.

[te_lanus]

There is the cheat menu.

[Baldy's Boss]

There is the cheat menu.

I do NOT cheat.

[Kevo00]

Just looking around that map I can see loads of groups of point to point routes in various parts of the map, or even parallel point to point routes that could be easily integrated. There might not be much stuff on network building itself, but there is plenty written on junction building and the best way to learn is to do it yourself using path signals. Where there are groups of cities and industries together, always have trains running on shared tracks where possible. Look to develop main lines which serve many towns and industries. If playing against AI, your ability to network ought to be your competitive advantage as a human player.

I'm not sure the use of maglev where standard electrified or even non-electrified would be fine helps either. Especially where the maglev routes are short and under-utilised. Aim for long routes with fast vehicles for the best payoff.

See the attached for an example of the way I play - its not the fastest network, but its effective, my company is stable and profitable, and my infra costs low.

That game has a dozen NewGRFs I don't have,which might conflict with my current mix!
Any particular places you can point out as good for pooling?
Current save attached.The road vehicles are basically gone now,I have to rip up their roads and stations to reduce maintenance costs...

I hate to sound annoyed but I was simply trying to help by giving you some general advice. I had to download several NewGRFs that I probably won't use to view your game. As Alberth says, those NewGRFs won't cause conflicts. I don't see why you should expect us to download your games to fix your problems and then refuse to look at things we share with you.

Sometimes you just have to put the leg work in yourself or you won't gain anything.

[Sylf]

Let me reiterate this point, just to be sure.
Downloading any NewGRF (especially using the in-game content downloader) and using it on one game does not overwrite anything. They all work just like NARS. If you are happy enough with how NARS work (have a work-around with another NewGRF), then you can play with any NewGRF out there without fear of losing anything.

[Baldy's Boss]

For Wardwood the stroke of doom approaches.
At least lessons can be learned,even if there's no salvation.

[Alberth]

I had a quick look last night, and the infra-structure bill seems to kill you.
If you look at that (click 'infrastructure' in the financial overview at the bottom right), you see maglev tracks as #1 cost).

You have a lot of maglev with just a single train on it, making barely a 7 digit profit. I think you'll have to kill most of it, or invest in it to make it more healthy (but it may be too late for that).
Also, you have lots of double maglev for just 2-3 trains, make it single track with pass-by areas.
Iirc you have exactly 1 bus (?!)

Take the train list, sort on profit, and take out everything than say 3,000,000 profit (just a random number, no idea if that is enough), for maglev you may want to raise that value.

Last but not least, take the minimap, and select the company view.. Everything coloured in your company is on the infra structure bill.Lots of unused road, unused track pieces in the middle of nowhere, and even completely unused lines.

[Alberth]

I cleaned out a lot of stuff, and the balance is now again non-negative, it still needs a lot of work.
Trains breaking down every 4 tiles can't be good

To give an idea, below is a not-so-good looking train:

before.png (381.83 KiB) Viewed 3373 times

After taking out the line, I get

after.png (90.69 KiB) Viewed 3373 times

So I don't get 150K from the train, but I gain about 3000K not paying for infra structure.

I included the overall financial overview as well, and as you can see, balance is just above 0. If you load it (you'll need a nightly), you can see I cleaned out a lot of lines and roads.


Edit: I should add that infra-structure costs are exponentially increasing, each additional piece that you have costs more than the previous piece, and this increase also grows. For this reason, cleaning out lines is very beneficial when you have a big company with a lot of lines.

[Baldy's Boss]

I had a quick look last night, and the infra-structure bill seems to kill you.
If you look at that (click 'infrastructure' in the financial overview at the bottom right), you see maglev tracks as #1 cost).

You have a lot of maglev with just a single train on it, making barely a 7 digit profit. I think you'll have to kill most of it, or invest in it to make it more healthy (but it may be too late for that).
Also, you have lots of double maglev for just 2-3 trains, make it single track with pass-by areas.
Iirc you have exactly 1 bus (?!)

Take the train list, sort on profit, and take out everything than say 3,000,000 profit (just a random number, no idea if that is enough), for maglev you may want to raise that value.

Last but not least, take the minimap, and select the company view.. Everything coloured in your company is on the infra structure bill.Lots of unused road, unused track pieces in the middle of nowhere, and even completely unused lines.

I've been phasing out the road vehicle operation,but the road infrastructure didn't seem to be a big part of the maintenance bills.It's been many years since I ran any non-electric trains,but I still have some unelectrified track...how do I find it,since none of my trains can run on it?

[Alberth]

I've been phasing out the road vehicle operation,but the road infrastructure didn't seem to be a big part of the maintenance bills.It's been many years since I ran any non-electric trains,but I still have some unelectrified track...how do I find it,since none of my trains can run on it?

Are you reading the same bills as me? (save game of Oct 1st, 2045)

road bill is 31,583,292 / yr (pound)
normal rail is 917,040 / yr (pound)

Road bill is over 31 times as large as normal rail. I don't understand how you think road bill is not a problem, and a bill more than 31 times as small is.


Note that all this is irrelevant. Even if you remove both, you won't rescue your company. In 2044, your income is around 640,000,000 for train, 7,000,000 for ship, and a little for road, making in total around 648,000,000 (all pounds).
At the costs side, train running cost are 76,000,000, ships 2,000,000, infrastructure 638,000,000, total a little under 717,000,000 (all pounds, I skipped some small values for those good at doing computations )
To break even, you need 717-638 = about 100,000,000 pound cost reduction at least. (Note that break-even does not leave you money to invest or perform maintenance, so you need more than a 100,000,000 cost reduction to survive.)
This nicely fits with the end number, 115,000,000 negative (there was a little construction done).

Even if you take out all road, rail, and electric rail, the costs drop 31 + 1 + 48 is about 80,000,000 pound. However, road and electric trains bring in profit (in 2044), so that disappears as well. Your savings are thus less than that.
In other words, you either have to take out some maglev too, or they have to improve in income, or you have to reduce costs by taking parts of the infra structure out.
To give you an example of each kind:

At Little Flintborough Forest, there is a long maglev tunnel. As experiment, I took it out, and replaced it with plain maglev tracks. That saves about 2,500,000 pound infra structure costs / yr.

However, if you look at that maglev train, it brings grain to a factory, making about 1,900,000 pound. There is no production surplus, no chance to improve income by adding more trains and double platforms (and a little pass-by in the middle of the tracks).
The tunnel I just replaced is costing already more than the income of that train. As experiment I took out the entire line. That saves you another 6,000,000 pound / yr.
In other words, you needed to make 8,500,000 / yr by the train (ie 5 times as much as it did) to cover your infra structure bill for that line.

Train 145 is at 0% reliability. It will break down every few tiles. If you replace the trains, or service them more often, they will make more money (the forest provides a lot of wood). Together with the goods train, you might just break even there.


Finally, as for your question about finding tracks: There is no tool available that highlights specific types of tracks. What you can do is hide the trees completely so you can see the tracks clearly, open the minimap on the company view to make it easy to find your track on the big map, zoom out far enough that you can cover a large area of the world, and still see the difference between road, maglev, and other rail, and scan the entire world by moving around in the world. Your eyes are the best tool here

[Baldy's Boss]

So tunnels cost more than plain tracks...but there is no indication of this fact on the itemized infrastructure?
How about bridges vs. tunnels or plain tracks?
I tend to favor tunnels in the quest to make lines ever more straight & level (which speeds delivery and increases income).Too bad if this is not worth the investment.