What's the Great Loop's problem?

[Baldy's Boss]

In the Buborough & Penbourne game.,I invested much effort in the "Great Loop",illustrated in the screenshot,linking New Drontown and other cities in a continuous cycles served by multiple trains.
It hasn't produced much financial return over the years and I'm wondering why...I figured regularly having trains coming along would be good service.Is the frequency bad?
Are the stations in bad sites catchment-wise?
What would improve it?

I've mainly moved on to other concerns (now testing a prototype electric engine against a high-speed steam engine on the new Sutfield-Muntbridge service,will there be a profit edge?) but it bothers me that my bright idea underwhelmed in practice.

[Transportman]

2 points:
-Your trains are not evenly spaced, and while it not directly have an effect, you might get better results with equal spacing.
-Your stations only cover a small part of the towns, which resulting in only small passenger flows.

[Alberth]

48K running cost is a lot, see if you can buy engines with lower running costs.

Despite that the window says 'Good', 58-62% isn't that good, it should be easy to make 65-68% or perhaps higher, probably by adding more trains
I played a little, but all trains were just waiting on a place at the next station, so maybe add more platforms too? (you make money by loading/unloading and moving trains, trains waiting at tracks just cost money).

[Baldy's Boss]

I added a short train with low running costs,no improvement visible yet but it hasn't completed its first circuit.
I also added a rogue station square in Puwood to increase the catchment (elsewhere there was no room or this would only extend to a street).

[Kevo00]

Station locations are dreadful, get some feeder buses or trams.

[Alberth]

I added a short train with low running costs,no improvement visible yet but it hasn't completed its first circuit.

Making all stations double platform, taking out the weird loop at the lower right, and using the cheaper train all over gives

loop_profit.png (404.29 KiB) Viewed 3149 times

Rating may be a bit inflated, as all trains are new, but they all make a profit.

If you reduce block size further you can add more trains (ideally you need a train at each station all the time)

[Baldy's Boss]

Hmmm.I added another cheap train and some double platforms,but have done work wlsewhere in the game rather than sticking to the Great Loop...but I see that the importance of running costs is definitely validated in the case of Trains 75 and 76 on the Sutfield run,as the steam engine's greater speed and reliability is no match for the electric engine's lower running costs when it comes to resultant profit.
Probably next strategic move for this game is disposing of all aircraft operations and properties.

[Baldy's Boss]

This game has moved forward twelve years.

The Great Loop has become profitable without much further intervention...I've been adding more of the cheap trains (though the older engines became unreliable and have been replaced) but been unable to quickly serve massive passenger crowds now building up at Minnton (lesser crowding is at New Drontown,while other legs of the loop continue to run under capacity).

Despite what I counted as a clear lesson learned in my previous post,in recent game years the two Sutfield-Muntbridge trains have been running neck-and-neck in profitability,the electric no longer having a clear advantage over the steam engine.
Still,before long I expect the Great Loop will get electrified.

[Baldy's Boss]

No electricity yet except for where tracks have been moved.All stations on the GL are now dual-platformed in parallel.More trains,more signal blocks.Passengers piling in at most stations.
BUT...profitability has sagged markedly despite the improvements.
What's the problem?

[Alberth]

nothing_wrong.png (310.26 KiB) Viewed 2136 times

You mean there is absolutely nothing wrong with this picture?

You make money by having full and moving trains. Loading and unloading cost money, but are unavoidable. Anything else is suspicious and needs closer inspection.

[Baldy's Boss]

The smoking old Britannia sold me on electrification...their reliability is down to 2/3 now.The order's been given to replace them all.
Once the Loop's running on electrics and slowing rolling stock (some of the carriages have limits below the new engines) has been replaced,perhaps passing sidings on the long,lucrative leg (New Drontown-Minnton) are next.
But the Gren-Gren Express and Buborough-to-Penbourne operations are bigger moneymakers at present,what's their secret?

[Alberth]

The big secret of profit is in eliminating losses.

moving full trains make money is key.

To find where you loose money, check in great detail how the operation runs. Watch trains going around. Does everything it does contribute to your goal of full moving trains?
Check its passenger load as it loads and unloads. Check the passenger load of other trains. Check waiting cargo amount at stations. Do trains leave as soon as possible? Do they always pick the right platform? Are they waiting at the right place?

So of the behaviour of the trains that you observed, what does not work towards moving full trains? Can you think of a reason why that happens? Can you think of a way to fix it?

[Baldy's Boss]

The big secret of profit is in eliminating losses.

moving full trains make money is key.

To find where you loose money, check in great detail how the operation runs. Watch trains going around. Does everything it does contribute to your goal of full moving trains?
Check its passenger load as it loads and unloads. Check the passenger load of other trains. Check waiting cargo amount at stations. Do trains leave as soon as possible? Do they always pick the right platform? Are they waiting at the right place?

So of the behaviour of the trains that you observed, what does not work towards moving full trains? Can you think of a reason why that happens? Can you think of a way to fix it?

There is one station on the Loop where the passenger load is less than the others,and which seems to have a problem letting trains on the away-from-town platform leave if there's a train on the toward-town platform.
So the leg from there to Puwood makes less money than the ones from Puwood,New Drontown,or Minnton (all of which have generally had a trainload of passengers ready to board).
But I don't see a fix,other than the town growing (which corrected earlier troubles in the other towns).

I WILL say that that weak leg makes the Drindston depot a convenient place to ditch old wagons without losing much revenue.The last of the 120 mph articulated wagons purchased in 1940 have now been replaced with new Amfleet cars,so every train on the Loop can run at least 125 mph and profits are up across the Loop...but the passenger crowds on the platforms,despite Excellent ratings at all stations,are down.

[Dave]

Queuing trains won't help you.

[Baldy's Boss]

Queuing trains won't help you.

The objective,I gather,is to always have a train loading on a platform on each station while the other platform has the next train to load coming in.

[Sylf]

If that's your goal, then I suggest you take a look at the signals around the stations, especially on exits. Because of the way signals are placed, that's not what is happening. Once you fix the station exits, you will also want to fix the entrance as well.

[Baldy's Boss]

So what is the fix for the exit at Draningville Woods?...that is the problem that has bedevilled me most.

[Dave]

Post a picture and I will impart my view.

[Baldy's Boss]

Post a picture and I will impart my view.

Screenshot & savegame...

[Alberth]

For details like signals, you need a more closeup picture, so you can actually see the type of signals everywhere.

It doesn't look like you changed anything in the signals. We have all seen your previous savegame, no need to post the same thing again.

I would suggest you try to make a fix as best as you can, test it for a while, and post the results (a detailed picture, what you changed, perhaps why (what you hope to achieve), and whether or not it worked).
Perhaps it's best to consider this change an experimental branch from your game, where you can experiment as much as you like, have train crashes (hopefully not, but it might happen), and not affect the 'real' game.