Make Transfer the default menu choice

[j7n]

On the Orders dialog we can choose between different actions that a train can take at a station: 'Unload if Accepted', 'Unload All', 'Transfer' and 'No unloading'. The default choice for the combo control is "Unload All". To select Transfer, one must click the tiny arrow and then pick it from a menu. I have used Unload a handful of times, but off the top of my head, I can't say what it is good for. Transfer is used all the time, however.

Is it possible to make Transfer action the default?

[planetmaker]

On the Orders dialog we can choose between different actions that a train can take at a station: 'Unload if Accepted', 'Unload All', 'Transfer' and 'No unloading'. The default choice for the combo control is "Unload All". To select Transfer, one must click the tiny arrow and then pick it from a menu. I have used Unload a handful of times, but off the top of my head, I can't say what it is good for. Transfer is used all the time, however.

Is it possible to make Transfer action the default?

Sorry, I don't think that makes sense at all nor is it the most-used order by a *large* margin. The default order is 'unload, if accepted' (which is the normal goto order) and that is definitely the easiest to use as it will only deliver stuff when there's something which wants it

Other orders like 'transfer' and 'unload all' require both, well thought-out networks and planning as well as setup with different trains to actually get the cargo to its final destination - both at least an order of magnitude more complex to build and setup than a simple goto pickup, goto drop between a mine and a powerplant.

[3298]

But under what circumstances do you use "Unload all" instead of "Transfer"? The default may stay good ol' "Unload if accepted", but "Transfer" should be the one you get using the button that currently says "Unload" IMHO. That's one click instead of the two clicks (or click-and-drag) you currently need for "Transfer". I can't think of a useful application of "Unload all" where "Transfer" isn't more useful.
I'm tempted to modify my and Eagle_rainbow's order window patch to do exactly that.

[Alberth]

With cargodist in trunk, transfer is largely irrelevant; cargodist is much better at handling transfers imho

Edit: The new users tend to be highly confused between unload and transfer, you used to see many questions about not getting any income despite delivering cargoes at stations.
As such, it is probably a bad idea to make the transfer easier accessible.

[kamnet]

"Unload, if accepted" allows the receiving station/industry to take just what it needs.
"Unload all" drops it all off for the station/industry to use, without regard for whether or not it needs it
"Transfer" drops it off to NOT be used by the station/industry, and instead held for another vehicle to receive it.

[andythenorth]

With cargodist, I think it's better to use 'unload and leave empty' in most cases. This might be FUD though. Fonso will know

[Eddi]

it'd probably be more useful to make these "quick buttons" (and also the ctrl+click behaviour of go-to) customizable, instead of changing the default for all people, which in generall will disturb more situations than it solves.

[j7n]

Sorry, I don't think that makes sense at all nor is it the most-used order by a *large* margin. The default order is 'unload, if accepted' (which is the normal goto order) and that is definitely the easiest to use as it will only deliver stuff when there's something which wants it

Just to clarify, I did not intend to make Transfer orders the default ones after a station is clicked. They are correctly Unload if Accepted, just like in the original game. I asked about the state of the new button.

In TTDPatch, forced Unload was converted into a Transfer because the former didn't seem to have much purpose. (If the unload command was used, transfer took place.) That was a sensible choice, except for AIs who always force unloaded.

The CargoDist system you mentioned seems familiar to me from Railroad Tycoon 3. I disliked that game for this reason mostly, because I couldn't direct cargo where I wanted it to go. And all I could do is hope that the alive and smart network sorts itself out somehow. The appeal of TTD to me personally, is the detailed planning required, down to every signal, and length of trains. And the reward from getting it right.

I've been playing with cargo destinations in OpenTTD now with all types of cargo set to assymetric, and it does not prevent me from playing the old way. The differences I see are that goods take a long time to get assigned to a dest station, and they also seem to be distributed evenly among all the destinations I have trains going to. I can no longer just take the goods that are there already and immediately bring them to a new station. But I can and still use Transfer orders.

I suppose in most of my use cases Unload would do the same as Transfer if there are no accepters at the station. I haven't tried it though. But what if hypothetically, a Sawmill is randomly generated at a Wood collection point. It would now eat some or all of the Wood. This would make the Sawmill that I had built or chosen on purpose, to be supplied less and maybe cause a gridlock of stacking up Goods trains.

[Eddi]

there are clear use cases for the distinction between unload and transfer:

industries with stockpile limits.

1. normal operation: the train arrives at the station, if the industry accepts it, then it drops the cargo, otherwise it uses a conditional order to go to an alternate dropoff point (or it carries the cargo back to its origin)
2. forced unload operation: the train arrives at the station, the train will always drop the cargo, but if the industry accepts it, it will be processed immediately. otherwise it is stored at the station, and another train may pick it up to deliver it to an alternate dropoff location, or the cargo is just left there to decay.
3. transfer operation: the cargo is always stored at the station, no matter whether the industry accepts it or not. feeder vehicles can then carry the cargo to any number of nearby industries which accept the cargo

[kamnet]

*ponders* Could there be a possibility of making this an option you can set in Advanced Settings, to toggle which action the button displays by default?

[frosch]

You can configure hotkeys via hotkeys.cfg (in the same folder as openttd.cfg, see readme).
You can assign various hotkeys, which are not assigned by default. Amongst them is also a hotkey for "transfer". I assigned "T" to it:

[order]
skip =
delete =
goto = G
nonstop =
fullload = F
unload =
nearest_depot =
always_service =
force_unload =
transfer = T
no_unload =
no_load =

It's currently not possible to change mouse key actions. (though there are plenty for scrolling options)

[j7n]

I have set the hotkeys for full load any and transfer, to F and T, which cover the majority of train routes I make.

[order]
skip =
delete = D
goto = G
nonstop = H
fullload = F
unload = K
nearest_depot =
always_service =
transfer = T
no_unload =
no_load =

I remember now I used forced unload on stations where there wasn't a stable demand for Goods yet. It's better to dump them than to have the heavy train bring them back to the factory. I think Cargo Dist sometimes unloads goods anyway now, because I just saw goods in a town station which should not have been there.

[Transportman]

I remember now I used forced unload on stations where there wasn't a stable demand for Goods yet. It's better to dump them than to have the heavy train bring them back to the factory. I think Cargo Dist sometimes unloads goods anyway now, because I just saw goods in a town station which should not have been there.

If those Goods are not used and just a wrong delivery, they will be cleared after some time (nightly only at this moment). But with CargoDist it also might be possible that that station can be used as a via-station for Goods.