Version 2.0 - Look to the Future

[jostor]

I haven't followed the thread so I don't know if any of these have been suggested before (I assume most if not all have), and I'm also a realism junkie which I guess shows.


- Cargodest (or something similar), at least for passengers and mail. The wood from forests shouldn't necessarily have to go to a certain sawmill....
- Diagonal roads, bridges and tunnels. I know this is one of the most wanted features but notoriously hard to implement to the current code, hence it being suitable for a big release.
- Signals on bridges/tunnels, perhaps even allowing stations and turns on them.
- 24h clock & departure boards.
- More terrain options, for example tall slopes that you can't build on, multiple climates within the same map.
- Revamp the signals. The existing pre-signals effectively have no use anymore since everything they can do can be done better with path signals, the regular signals also essentially don't do anything the path signals can't do. Making priorities can be done with programmable signals, or perhaps it's time to implement some kind of priority signals?


I know this part will meet some opposition since it doesn't contribute in any way except realism, but bear with me and I'm not actually expecting this to ever be part of the main trunk, but one can dream...
Perhaps as a patch or option (but not in the main game), more realistic signals, where there are signals and pre-signals (not in the context that pre-signals exists right now), and the pre-signal will inform the train about the state of the next signal so the train can slow down if necessary (and not go from 300 km/h to 0 in one tile). A normal signal would just like a normal (path) signal will today show either red or green, the pre-signal will show if the train has to slow down or can continue at speed, this differs between countries but in Sweden at least a green pre-signal means slow down and a white pre-signal means continue at speed.

The combined signals (regular path signal and pre-signal in one) is suitable for where it's relatively close between the signals, for example on your average double track line.
The normal (path) signal without a pre-signal is suited for where there's a very long way between signals, such as on single-track lines, or perhaps where there simply isn't a next signal since the line only leads to a terminus.
The pre-signal is not counted as a safe waiting place since it will never show "stop", only "slow down" or "continue at speed", it's suitable in areas where it's far between signals, and will appear for example as you enter a passing loop (and the regular signal is at the end of the passing loop). I hope people get an idea of what I mean

[Jacko]

I haven't followed the thread so I don't know if any of these have been suggested before (I assume most if not all have), and I'm also a realism junkie which I guess shows.

- Cargodest (or something similar), at least for passengers and mail. The wood from forests shouldn't necessarily have to go to a certain sawmill....

thats fairly simple, set non-express cargo (or something) to 'aysymetric', assuming you mean the patch of course

- Diagonal roads, bridges and tunnels. I know this is one of the most wanted features but notoriously hard to implement to the current code, hence it being suitable for a big release.

still impossible AFAIK

- Signals on bridges/tunnels, perhaps even allowing stations and turns on them.

Look for path 'signals on tunnels and bridges' or something

- 24h clock & departure boards.

Again, its a patch

- More terrain options, for example tall slopes that you can't build on, multiple climates within the same map.

I'm not quite sure what you mean.

- Revamp the signals. The existing pre-signals effectively have no use anymore since everything they can do can be done better with path signals, the regular signals also essentially don't do anything the path signals can't do. Making priorities can be done with programmable signals, or perhaps it's time to implement some kind of priority signals?

not really a problem to me
if you don't like presignals, don't use them. Simple.

I know this part will meet some opposition since it doesn't contribute in any way except realism, but bear with me and I'm not actually expecting this to ever be part of the main trunk, but one can dream...
Perhaps as a patch or option (but not in the main game), more realistic signals, where there are signals and pre-signals (not in the context that pre-signals exists right now), and the pre-signal will inform the train about the state of the next signal so the train can slow down if necessary (and not go from 300 km/h to 0 in one tile). A normal signal would just like a normal (path) signal will today show either red or green, the pre-signal will show if the train has to slow down or can continue at speed, this differs between countries but in Sweden at least a green pre-signal means slow down and a white pre-signal means continue at speed.

The combined signals (regular path signal and pre-signal in one) is suitable for where it's relatively close between the signals, for example on your average double track line.
The normal (path) signal without a pre-signal is suited for where there's a very long way between signals, such as on single-track lines, or perhaps where there simply isn't a next signal since the line only leads to a terminus.
The pre-signal is not counted as a safe waiting place since it will never show "stop", only "slow down" or "continue at speed", it's suitable in areas where it's far between signals, and will appear for example as you enter a passing loop (and the regular signal is at the end of the passing loop). I hope people get an idea of what I mean

I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to get across, but a signal/train path can only be applied to the next tile/signal etc. So AFAIK this is also impossible

[Snail]

- More terrain options, for example tall slopes that you can't build on

This would be more interesting if we phrased it like, "taller slopes you can only build certain railtypes (e.g. rackrail) on"

[kamnet]

Jacko: You do realize that this the "here's what we want in stock 2.0" topic, and not the "let's point out the patches that are not yet in trunk" topic, right?

[jostor]

I haven't followed the thread so I don't know if any of these have been suggested before (I assume most if not all have), and I'm also a realism junkie which I guess shows.

- Cargodest (or something similar), at least for passengers and mail. The wood from forests shouldn't necessarily have to go to a certain sawmill....

thats fairly simple, set non-express cargo (or something) to 'aysymetric', assuming you mean the patch of course

- Diagonal roads, bridges and tunnels. I know this is one of the most wanted features but notoriously hard to implement to the current code, hence it being suitable for a big release.

still impossible AFAIK

- Signals on bridges/tunnels, perhaps even allowing stations and turns on them.

Look for path 'signals on tunnels and bridges' or something

- 24h clock & departure boards.

Again, its a patch

- More terrain options, for example tall slopes that you can't build on, multiple climates within the same map.

I'm not quite sure what you mean.

- Revamp the signals. The existing pre-signals effectively have no use anymore since everything they can do can be done better with path signals, the regular signals also essentially don't do anything the path signals can't do. Making priorities can be done with programmable signals, or perhaps it's time to implement some kind of priority signals?

not really a problem to me
if you don't like presignals, don't use them. Simple.

I know this part will meet some opposition since it doesn't contribute in any way except realism, but bear with me and I'm not actually expecting this to ever be part of the main trunk, but one can dream...
Perhaps as a patch or option (but not in the main game), more realistic signals, where there are signals and pre-signals (not in the context that pre-signals exists right now), and the pre-signal will inform the train about the state of the next signal so the train can slow down if necessary (and not go from 300 km/h to 0 in one tile). A normal signal would just like a normal (path) signal will today show either red or green, the pre-signal will show if the train has to slow down or can continue at speed, this differs between countries but in Sweden at least a green pre-signal means slow down and a white pre-signal means continue at speed.

The combined signals (regular path signal and pre-signal in one) is suitable for where it's relatively close between the signals, for example on your average double track line.
The normal (path) signal without a pre-signal is suited for where there's a very long way between signals, such as on single-track lines, or perhaps where there simply isn't a next signal since the line only leads to a terminus.
The pre-signal is not counted as a safe waiting place since it will never show "stop", only "slow down" or "continue at speed", it's suitable in areas where it's far between signals, and will appear for example as you enter a passing loop (and the regular signal is at the end of the passing loop). I hope people get an idea of what I mean

I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to get across, but a signal/train path can only be applied to the next tile/signal etc. So AFAIK this is also impossible

This is merely a list of things that I think might be suited for the next major release. I know that most of them already exist as patches, but patches is not the main game and just using the main game is MUCH nicer than messing around with buggy patches and incompatible savegames, plus I would estimate that the vast majority of players play only the default game meaning they lose out on these features.

I also know that the ones that don't exist as patches are more or less impossible to in the game right now, however none of it is impossible programming-wise, and would just require a lot of work, which is why it's suitable for something major.

My comments about the existing pre-signals is more or less referring to the fact that they are quite complicated to a novice user, and in fact the entire signal system can be hard to understand initially, so it does need cleaning up, and the existing pre-signals don't do anything that path signals can't, so why confuse a new user or bloat the UI with them?

[Eddi]

so, that brings us back to the beginning... which of these is fundamentally gamechanging enough to justify a "major" release (2.0)? instead of just another "normal" release (1.x)?

this isn't (or shouldn't be) a WISHLIST thread, it's a VISION thread. just listing a bunch of existing patches doesn't constitute a long-term vision...

[wojteks86]

A v2.0 game should surely introduce either 3d or at least map rotation.
That sounds like a huge amount of work

[Katve]

I think if we can finish OpenGFX 32bit-version before reaching of 2.0.0 Next version would be 2.0.0 instead of adding 0.1 to the version number. It would be similar as a leap from the 0.7.0 to 1.0.0 (Reason for that was OpenGFX basegraphics completion and game was first time 100% freeware.). Also adding all the missing features from the TTDPatch to the Openttd would be one good goal.

I wouldn't like map rotation or 3D because it would make OpenTTD totally different game than before. I like isometric view and It is more simple that view. Also it would be huge project (Like mentioned before.) not only for devs and OpenGFX artists, but also to the NewGRF developers. Also some features are very wanted and awesome, but very hard to add. One example is signals in tunnels. Without complete undeground viewing mode signals couldn't be viewed. And I am not talking about coding of these features only about planning UI.

[Pyoro]

3D would only interest me if done like in some track planning programs - basically press a button and it automatically generates a full 3D view from what you've build in 2D. Unobtrusive and nice eye-candy, but nothing that'd a) do something bad to sys req for the basic game nor b) change gameplay in any way.

And I'm not sure if it'd be enough to call it a "vision", but it'd be nice if along the road to 2.0 everything that's not yet would get "modular"; for example enable loading multiple dock GFRs, roadtypes of course, road stops, depots ... maybe some other things I'm currently forgetting. At least imo it's not fair some things can have multiple looks while others can't. As a dock, I'd definitely feel inferior to rail stations

Also, probably quite far-fetched, I wonder if it'd be long-therm possible to actually integrate GRF functionality into the game itself, something like the Civ-series unit editors for example - or basically like those GRFMakes, maybe integrated into the scenario editor. Copy a .png sprite sheet into a folder, open OTTD, load the editor, type in some vehicle data in a convenient GUI, save, done ... ah, that'd certainly be nice

[andythenorth]

v2.0 needs needs needs:

• a train driving mode. This would be available to all players in multiplayer (up to 65536 players). Each player would drive one train. It is not necessary to drive other transport types, only trains. In this way we can compete with Trainz and suchlike.
• removal of other transport modes which are not trains. The things like ships are just a nasty hack, because the game was made for trains, and the other types are kind of just a perversion of the codebase (noobs won't understand this, but I have read at least 9,000 lines of the actual codez so I know wot I discourse about). Removing ships, airplanes and road vehicles will allow the codebase to be cleaned up, unblocking lots of very important features like underground building mode.
• hovercraft. Hovercraft would be totally awesome.
• I should be able to buy extra content, but also get refunds on it if I don't like it. Not with Paypal.
• There should be a way to use OpenTTD for bitcoin mining, like I build a big network, then it mines bitcoins or something
• Vote mode. If a feature is missing, I should be able to vote to have it.
• Lemmings mod. I type cheat code into a sign window, and I can play original lemmings. That would be awesome
• Automatic mode. If I'm like bored of playing and crap, I can just press 'auto' button and the computer will play the game for me.
• Combined ECS, FIRS, and Pikka's basic industries, without newgrfs. Devs should put all these newgrfs into basic game, all at once. It's crappy that I can't have all these turned on, and that I have to load newgrfs. The game will never take off and be truly popular if stuff like this isn't fixed.

I have talked a lot about stuff like this with devs on irc, and I can tell you for sure that they have strong thoughts about doing it.

Can't wait for v2.0.

[Supercheese]

[*]Vote mode.

I vote for changing your username to "andythetroll".

[Chris]

v2.0 needs needs needs:

• a train driving mode. This would be available to all players in multiplayer (up to 65536 players). Each player would drive one train. It is not necessary to drive other transport types, only trains. In this way we can compete with Trainz and suchlike.
• removal of other transport modes which are not trains. The things like ships are just a nasty hack, because the game was made for trains, and the other types are kind of just a perversion of the codebase (noobs won't understand this, but I have read at least 9,000 lines of the actual codez so I know wot I discourse about). Removing ships, airplanes and road vehicles will allow the codebase to be cleaned up, unblocking lots of very important features like underground building mode.
• hovercraft. Hovercraft would be totally awesome.
• I should be able to buy extra content, but also get refunds on it if I don't like it. Not with Paypal.
• There should be a way to use OpenTTD for bitcoin mining, like I build a big network, then it mines bitcoins or something
• Vote mode. If a feature is missing, I should be able to vote to have it.
• Lemmings mod. I type cheat code into a sign window, and I can play original lemmings. That would be awesome
• Automatic mode. If I'm like bored of playing and crap, I can just press 'auto' button and the computer will play the game for me.
• Combined ECS, FIRS, and Pikka's basic industries, without newgrfs. Devs should put all these newgrfs into basic game, all at once. It's crappy that I can't have all these turned on, and that I have to load newgrfs. The game will never take off and be truly popular if stuff like this isn't fixed.

I have talked a lot about stuff like this with devs on irc, and I can tell you for sure that they have strong thoughts about doing it.

Can't wait for v2.0.

Your posts lighten my day one by one

[wojteks86]

I thought he was serious until I read about the hovercraft thing

[michael blunck]

I thought he was serious until I read about the hovercraft thing

How could he be serious? The demand for up-to-date state-of-the-art rendered 3D graphics is missing.

regards
Michael

[SwissFan91]

stuff

I was like "Who the hell does this guy think he i.. oh, it's Andy."

[Dave]

v2.0 needs needs needs:

• a train driving mode. This would be available to all players in multiplayer (up to 65536 players). Each player would drive one train. It is not necessary to drive other transport types, only trains. In this way we can compete with Trainz and suchlike.
• removal of other transport modes which are not trains. The things like ships are just a nasty hack, because the game was made for trains, and the other types are kind of just a perversion of the codebase (noobs won't understand this, but I have read at least 9,000 lines of the actual codez so I know wot I discourse about). Removing ships, airplanes and road vehicles will allow the codebase to be cleaned up, unblocking lots of very important features like underground building mode.
• hovercraft. Hovercraft would be totally awesome.
• I should be able to buy extra content, but also get refunds on it if I don't like it. Not with Paypal.
• There should be a way to use OpenTTD for bitcoin mining, like I build a big network, then it mines bitcoins or something
• Vote mode. If a feature is missing, I should be able to vote to have it.
• Lemmings mod. I type cheat code into a sign window, and I can play original lemmings. That would be awesome
• Automatic mode. If I'm like bored of playing and crap, I can just press 'auto' button and the computer will play the game for me.
• Combined ECS, FIRS, and Pikka's basic industries, without newgrfs. Devs should put all these newgrfs into basic game, all at once. It's crappy that I can't have all these turned on, and that I have to load newgrfs. The game will never take off and be truly popular if stuff like this isn't fixed.

I have talked a lot about stuff like this with devs on irc, and I can tell you for sure that they have strong thoughts about doing it.

Can't wait for v2.0.

Lost the plot!!! All true though!!!

I particularly like "removal of other transport modes which are not trains. The things like ships are just a nasty hack..."

Hahahaha.

[Tafidis]

Seriously though, wouldn't a full 32bpp base set merit a v2.0? Just as a reminder, v1.0 was merited by the advent of Opengfx, the first complete base graphics set.

Although I know many people would go for nothing else than a new map array to allow all the things Andy mentioned, and even more, such as custom bridge heads, traffic lights, diagonal roads and bridges, signals in tunnels, and ... hovercraft-ferries that carry RVs.

My personal prerequisites for 2.0 would be three features that have been worked on heavily and many people have wished for long:

cargo routing, extra height levels, daylength

[frosch]

Seriously though, wouldn't a full 32bpp base set merit a v2.0? Just as a reminder, v1.0 was merited by the advent of Opengfx, the first complete base graphics set.

OpenTTD is not that predictable. We always try to make it hard to predict stuff like release dates.

[Supercheese]

OpenTTD is not that predictable. We always try to make it hard to predict stuff like release dates.

April Fools! No, wait, seriously, this is a legit release. Most years. Sometimes.

[Zephyris]

I think zBase is less of a milestone than OpenGFX, after all OpenGFX was the first time ever that OpenTTD really was completely free software. zBase is just eyecandy