[OTTD] UKRS2 - Latest version 1.05 (02/01/2013)

[Valle]

actually though as a quasi suggestion/query are there plans afoot for a British rail Brunswick green "star" (when used with passenger carriages from 1960 onwards) as it was the last steam locomotive built at Swindon works and by British rail.

No plans. Evening Star was hardly the only 9F to be used on passenger trains, and it's impossible to make it so only one appears in the green livery.

How about a livery refit that has to be carried out by the player in the depot, if that's possible? Would also be interesting for the A4 and generally for players operating a "historic fleet" in their game.

[Hitperson]

sorry i meant as in there being a different livery for when pulling passenger cars.

[PikkaBird]

sorry i meant as in there being a different livery for when pulling passenger cars.

Yes, but no. 9Fs pulled passenger trains quite often, and they weren't painted green to do it.

There's no real way to represent the specialness of Evening Star in this grf, and "players operating a "historic fleet"" should probably look elsewhere.

[Hitperson]

sorry i meant as in there being a different livery for when pulling passenger cars.

Yes, but no. 9Fs pulled passenger trains quite often, and they weren't painted green to do it.

There's no real way to represent the specialness of Evening Star in this grf, and "players operating a "historic fleet"" should probably look elsewhere.

ahh ok, many thanks.

[Emperor Jake]

May I make a suggestion?

When I play with UKRS2, i always find the passenger cpacities to be much too small, especially in CargoDist games. I could turn the passenger generation down, but the set is still imbalanced with the capacities of the 2CC set and my favourite bus and tram sets. I could also increase train lengths, but I want to keep it good looking and realistic, instead of having hundreds of 16-car Electrostars all over the place.
A three-car Electrostar carries 105 passengers. This is about the same as a city bus from the German Road Vehicle Set, NARVS, or Ikarus Set. It's just not enough.

What I propose is to introduce a passenger capacity parameter, much like the one in the Japan Set. This way, the current capacities which are tuned with the default vehicles and eGRVTS can be kept, or one can choose double the current capacities or "realistic" capacities. Options such as x1.5, x2 and x2.5 capacity seem right. It should also apply to mail.

Thanks,
Jake

[NekoMaster]

As for the capacity problems, might I suggest adding more trains with proper schedualing?

In some high speed systems they (try) to solve their problems by adding more trains and schedualing them to come one after the other shortly after.

[broodje]

That is not always an option, I've also run into the lack of capacity problem. I've even used the 'early houses' GRF that lowers the number of passengers to 25% of the normal amount in the early years. Even with these much lower numbers my trains were running at full capacity and people were left behind at the platforms. In fact I quiete like Emperor Jake his solution, and I've used it often with the Japanese set when I was playing a game with any destination patch loaded.

[Supercheese]

I, too, would like to see a higher passenger capacity for some UKRS vehicles. I wanted it so much that I've already modified my local copy to slightly increase capacities...

[Valle]

My opinion regarding the capacities isn't any different, and this ain't the first time I'm making a post about it. A parameter to switch between scaled-down capacities and real-life capacities for all vehicles of this set would be the perfect way to solve that problem. Sure - networks with a silly amount of tracks and unrealistically short signal blocks can always be constructed, but that throws that little bit of realism this game can have with powerful railway networks, well, straight out of the window.

There's no real way to represent the specialness of Evening Star in this grf, and "players operating a "historic fleet"" should probably look elsewhere.

And a livery refit as in the xUSSR and Dutch Set v2.0 is not exactly that? o.O Sure, it leaves the chance that players create more than one Evening Star, but in that case it's the player refitting more than one 9F to that livery who has to be blamed for that.

[PikkaBird]

There's no real way to represent the specialness of Evening Star in this grf, and "players operating a "historic fleet"" should probably look elsewhere.

And a livery refit as in the xUSSR and Dutch Set v2.0 is not exactly that? o.O

No, it isn't. Livery refits for cargoless vehicles are still a bit hacky, and in any case there are no other livery refits in this grf and I'd rather keep this set simple and consistent. This set is focused on gameplay in the spirit of Transport Tycoon, and I refer you again to the second half of the sentence you quoted.

As for passenger capacities, well... as far as I'm concerned, and I've said this many times in discussions on aircraft balance, the overproduction of passengers is the single most unbalancing 'feature' of OpenTTD. If CargoDist - which isn't even a trunk feature - produces even more passengers, then that's a problem with that patch and needs to be rectified. I don't think the balancing issues, which are complex enough as they are, should be muddied further by increasing vehicle capacities much past the default.

[Eddi]

CargoDist doesn't produce "more" Passengers, but on average they travel longer distances/multiple vehicles, so they have a higher impact on overall transport capacity needed.

[PikkaBird]

CargoDist doesn't produce "more" Passengers, but on average they travel longer distances/multiple vehicles, so they have a higher impact on overall transport capacity needed.

Fair enough, but I still don't think it's something vehicle authors should be compensating for.

[Purno]

CargoDist doesn't produce "more" Passengers, but on average they travel longer distances/multiple vehicles, so they have a higher impact on overall transport capacity needed.

Fair enough, but I still don't think it's something vehicle authors should be compensating for.

If that gets the vehicle's capacity more to the real thing, the "overproducing" of passengers could perhaps be considered a feature, rather than a bug. I wonder if aiming to keep vehicle capacities close to how they were in the original game is a good thing, assuming that's what you mean with "increasing vehicle capacities much past the default."

[planetmaker]

CargoDist doesn't produce "more" Passengers, but on average they travel longer distances/multiple vehicles, so they have a higher impact on overall transport capacity needed.

Fair enough, but I still don't think it's something vehicle authors should be compensating for.

I wonder if aiming to keep vehicle capacities close to how they were in the original game is a good thing

I agree completely with PikkaBird here. Changing the vehicle capacity (or drastically the amount of cargo which needs transporting) changes the game for little reason. Changing the general level of production should be a thing to decide for the house or industry set and not a matter of which transport scheme is used.

[PikkaBird]

Public Beta 0.1.0 is attached below. Bananamen, any idea why this file will not upload to bananas? (" Unexpected error while uploading.").

This update is mostly behind-the-scenes work on updating to GRFv8, and adding a number of new parameters which I hope people will play around with and report bugs with. There are a few new vehicles added too; it's getting very close to being ready for a 1.0 RC!

28/02/12 - pb 0.1.0:

• Updated to GRF v8.
• Added single livery parameter.
• Added locomotive and wagon selection parameters, for players who want a smaller (or larger) set of vehicles.
• Recoded the Metro Cammell DMU as a normal multiple unit.
• Added 0-6-0 Freight and 4-4-0 Shire, BR Class 321 and BR Class 325, and BR Type HA.
• Added the EE GT3, GWR Railmotor, NER EE1 and NER EF1 from the add-on grf.

Because of the new parameter settings, and because one vehicle (the Metro Cammell DMU) is now coded very differently, you will need to manually re-activate the GRF if you want to use it in an existing game.

As always see the wiki for more detailed information. Enjoy!

[Eddi]

CargoDist doesn't produce "more" Passengers, but on average they travel longer distances/multiple vehicles, so they have a higher impact on overall transport capacity needed.

Fair enough, but I still don't think it's something vehicle authors should be compensating for.

i tend to agree here. this should be decided on a more general level, e.g.

• the existing "reduce passenger/town cargo" patch, maybe more flexibilized for any kind of cargo.
• a patch to increase/decrease capacities over all vehicle sets (in the spirit of the freighttrain-multiplier)
• "inflation" of cargo production depending on game year
• ...

[PikkaBird]

• the existing "reduce passenger/town cargo" patch, maybe more flexibilized for any kind of cargo.
• a patch to increase/decrease capacities over all vehicle sets (in the spirit of the freighttrain-multiplier)
• "inflation" of cargo production depending on game year
• ...

Well, varying the production of towns is the province of town building grfs, isn't it?

I think if cargodist games have vastly different transport requirements from non-cargodist games with everything else identical, that's something that needs to be addressed in cargodist. It's not something that an additional setting or grf should be needed to compensate for.

[FooBar]

Thanks for the new release!
Interesting choice of version number though, from 0.82 to 0.1

[Emperor Jake]

Public Beta 0.1.0 is attached below.

Looks great!
Possible bug: When the locomotives parameter is set to "No Locomotives", then there are no wagons available either, no matter what the wagons parameter is set to.

Also, what's the point of the "No Locomotives" parameter? (assuming the above is not a bug)

I think if cargodist games have vastly different transport requirements from non-cargodist games with everything else identical, that's something that needs to be addressed in cargodist. It's not something that an additional setting or grf should be needed to compensate for.

Even with the passenger generation factor setting on default, Cargodist seems to generate a ridiculous amount of passengers, no matter what houses set is being used. It is, however, easy to turn it down to a reasonable number (I usually turn it down to negative 5) but even with that setting my lines will get crowded as the network grows to the point I need to cram over 1000 passengers in a 7-tile train. (for which I use double decker trains anyway, which don't exist in the UK)
I understand that you want to keep the capacities as they are, but I just found it wasn't balanced with other sets, especially the Ikarus and German bus sets and the 2CC train set. It was just weird to have a city bus carry more than a 3-car electrostar. It is, however well balanced with eGRVTS, which uses more default-like capacities for buses. So it seems we'll just have sets with either "original" or "realistic" passenger capacities, and they won't work well with each other balance-wise; they're just designed for different styles of play.

[PikkaBird]

Public Beta 0.1.0 is attached below.

Looks great!
Possible bug: When the locomotives parameter is set to "No Locomotives", then there are no wagons available either, no matter what the wagons parameter is set to.

Also, what's the point of the "No Locomotives" parameter? (assuming the above is not a bug)

The above is not a bug; it's an OpenTTD feature that there will be no wagons available if there are no locomotives available. The point of the parameter is if you want to use the wagons from this grf with another train grf.