FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development

[Hyronymus]

Where you mean that If supplies are delivered every month there is a chance that production may increase by 1 hence an industry will not close.

Why not make delivering supplies the only way to increase production and make servicing an industry the only way to keep them from closing?

[andythenorth]

Where you mean that If supplies are delivered every month there is a chance that production may increase by 1 hence an industry will not close.

More accurately, if supplies are delivered each month, production definitely won't decrease. No production decrease, no closure

Why not make delivering supplies the only way to increase production and make servicing an industry the only way to keep them from closing?

It's worth considering. I'm not sure if it's actually possible but I'll have a think about it.

[Hyronymus]

Of course it's possible , it's plain original TTD behaviour, except for supplies increasing production output.

[andythenorth]

Of course it's possible , it's plain original TTD behaviour, except for supplies increasing production output.

The issue is what to do when there is bad service, but supplies are delivered.

The options are:
- do nothing - production stays same
- decrease production
- increase production
- battle! - random chance of two or three of above

Code wise, it's possible. But for the player - which outcome is easy to understand and seems fair?

[Hyronymus]

Depends on what you define a bad service. Supplies with resources (not being supply goods) once a year?

[andythenorth]

Depends on what you define a bad service.

If I use the games existing production code to handle decrease, then it's whatever that defines as bad...

Documentation is here: http://wiki.openttd.org/Speed#Production_change

[Hyronymus]

Depends on what you define a bad service.

If I use the games existing production code to handle decrease, then it's whatever that defines as bad...

Documentation is here: http://wiki.openttd.org/Speed#Production_change

You mean closure, right? IMO:

- Industries shouldn't close or change production rate when being provided with resources
- Industries shouldn't close but can change producition when being provided with resources and supply goods
- Industries should close when not being provided with resources (supply goods aren't a variable in this)

[andythenorth]

@Hyronymus:

So I can work out if this is a feature I can include...it probably helps to separate completely behaviour of primary and secondary industry.

I can see 'Supplies' could be confusing at first in FIRS...
- Farm Supplies and Engineering Supplies go to primary industry and act to raise production.
- Manufacturing Supplies go to secondary industry. They act like any other input cargo for secondary industry, i.e. they will be processed into some output. Maybe Manufacturing Supplies are badly named - I'll think about that...translators will hate any further changes though

Ignore Manufacturing Supplies for now, they are a distraction from the other two cargos which I'll group as 'Supplies'.

For secondary industry in FIRS, closure rules are simple, and it would also be simple to revert them to default game behaviour in respect of closure.
- Their production level depends only on delivered input cargo, with certain industries producing more efficiently if multiple input cargos are delivered within 30 days of each other.
- It would be no problem to have these industries close if service levels were bad (default game behaviour), or according to other rules (current FIRS rule is "don't close if something was produced in last 18 months", which is same as saying "some cargo was delivered").

Primary industry closure is where the more tricky design decision has to be made, e.g. what to do if service is bad, but some Supplies cargo is delivered. It's easy to list the options (in my post above), but I don't know which is best.

'Simple' was never a goal for FIRS, but 'not fragile or confusing' was

[Hyronymus]

As you just described it, farm supplies and engineering supplies act to increase production and I'm fine with that. It's just doesn't seem fair to throw with production penalties for primary industries when they aren't supplied.

[andythenorth]

As you just described it, farm supplies and engineering supplies act to increase production and I'm fine with that. It's just doesn't seem fair to throw with production penalties for primary industries when they aren't supplied.

Ok, so on that basis, it might make sense to use the primary decrease / closure mechanism (the two are the same, OTTD code-wise).

That the FIRS closure parameter depends on having the decrease parameter set is a usability problem that has been bothering me. I'll see if this suggestion offers a way to also solve that.

There was in fact an earlier version of FIRS that used the default production change if no supplies were delivered. The code worked, I can't recall why I changed it. I would have had a good reason at the time

[Hyronymus]

Nice, I think it will make the gameplay more appealing too as you 'loose' the penalty for failing to supply supply goods. With the very interesting chain of production that comes wiith FIRS it's already challenging to serve them all.

And while you're at it something I wondered about. In RT2/RT3 you'll get a nice polished pop-up when a new type of industry is built for the very first time. Is that possible with FIRS too or doesn't OpenTTD allow for that? You could i.e. go for the blue pop-up you get when a new vehicle is available for testing.

[Eddi]

that would have to be implemented in OpenTTD.

[Hyronymus]

that would have to be implemented in OpenTTD.

OK, it's not a big issue.

[whitelly]

Hello thx for beatyfull mode ..its nice ,graphic idea but there is one big BUT.I stared in 1950 ...iron ore mine ..136 tons..nice..now im in 1982 amd iron ore mine is at..423 tons..It have suplyes and all and still...after 2 hour or something its 423 tons! You are hardcore i take it but im noob and i wanna haul ten thousands of tons at least..not 423..Cant you make it like ESC? good mode but i dont like graphic.i like your but ..i dont wanna wait all day for higher production.This system is dull and it doesnt even make sence.i mean..100 trucks or excavators are able to do a lot more work then 1 no?
Realism..i dont wanna realism...realism is bad and it ruins the fun ..anyway thx and good luck.

[Kogut]

Try cheats - ctrl-alt-c and use "enable modifying production values", later click on industry details window.

[Dante123]

Hello thx for beatyfull mode ..its nice ,graphic idea but there is one big BUT.I stared in 1950 ...iron ore mine ..136 tons..nice..now im in 1982 amd iron ore mine is at..423 tons..It have suplyes and all and still...after 2 hour or something its 423 tons! You are hardcore i take it but im noob and i wanna haul ten thousands of tons at least..not 423..Cant you make it like ESC? good mode but i dont like graphic.i like your but ..i dont wanna wait all day for higher production.This system is dull and it doesnt even make sence.i mean..100 trucks or excavators are able to do a lot more work then 1 no?
Realism..i dont wanna realism...realism is bad and it ruins the fun ..anyway thx and good luck.

hehe FIRS is just right the way it is now i would say

[Emperor Jake]

Try cheats - ctrl-alt-c and use "enable modifying production values", later click on industry details window.

That doesn't work in FIRS - the mines, farms etc. are seen as secondary industries because they accept engineering/farm supplies.

[SquireJames]

Works fine for me, I did it to test out whether 750 tonne coal trains were viable with UKRS2 You can increase or decrease the productivity of any primary industry in FIRS the same as in vanilla

[andythenorth]

That doesn't work in FIRS - the mines, farms etc. are seen as secondary industries because they accept engineering/farm supplies.

Works for certain version of ottd onwards. Don't know which revision, but frosch fixed support for it.

[vinaximus]

Just for testing purpose i started the game in 1950 and played upto 1965, to serve a fruit and veg farm with farm suppliers and delivering its fruits and veg to brewery
But in these years the production only changed from 16 to 40 and then again dropped to 32.
FIRS is great and i loved the earlier versions, but the current one is unplayable.