OpenGFX - Graphics Base Set

FooBar · **Posted:** Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:48 pm

Soeb wrote:

FooBar wrote:

Thanks. Sorry for spamming but I can't see anything that will replace selectors.

They're part of the type 15; OTTD GUI Sprites. You probably want to set bit 7 of the type byte (i.e. add 80 -> type=95) in order to be able to replace only the selectors.

skidd13 · **Posted:** Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:08 pm

A small update to my cursors. I added border anti-aliasing. This should smooth the outlines, but keep the sharpness. Furthermore I created an alternative to the circle since some people dislike it. Enjoy.

DJ Nekkid · **Joined:** Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:33 pm **Posts:** 2141

orudge wrote:

Well, one thing the new graphics perhaps don't have going for them for new users is the fact they're generally a bit more "complicated" to play. The original vehicle sets are very easy to play, and while this may result in a few oddities like 400mph maglev trains carrying coal, or TGVs full of cattle, it doesn't overburden the user with being forced to use certain wagons, or having to refit things all the time, etc. Possibly worth considering.

I totally agree with you here owen, but i also think that the appropiate wagons (i.e: passanger and mail/goods/armor) disserve their own grapics for the given engines, as it will enhance the "eye candy" proportion of the game, but they could still be used for coal/whatever...
And also give the engines their proper names. TGV instead of T.I.M etc...

richk67 · **Posted:** Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:51 pm

orudge wrote:

Well, one thing the new graphics perhaps don't have going for them for new users is the fact they're generally a bit more "complicated" to play. The original vehicle sets are very easy to play, and while this may result in a few oddities like 400mph maglev trains carrying coal, or TGVs full of cattle, it doesn't overburden the user with being forced to use certain wagons, or having to refit things all the time, etc. Possibly worth considering.

Sure, I was more meaning re-use of the graphics, so a nicely drawn A4 Pacific Streamliner is just imported from an existing artists work rather than redrawing the whole lot. However, by using newgrf features, we would be able to have some slightly more complex behaviour too without spoiling things too much.

Zephyris · **Joined:** Wed May 16, 2007 4:59 pm **Posts:** 2624

I agree that getting our hands on any of the sprites from UKRS or av8 would be excellent, both are (afaik) drawn completely from scratch, and are very high quality graphics...

DanMacK · **Posted:** Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:36 am

A prelim of what I'm thinking of. The fact there's notrhing after the Turbo until the Monorail in the early 2000's seems kind of ridiculous, so I kept the original names, but also rearranged the dates a bit.

The Wills 2-8-0 stays as is, just introduced in 1920 now, the MJS250 is based on an EMD SW switcher, and is introduced in 1940. The breakdown and graphics are below.

Wills 2-8-0 - Standard Consolidation type loco - avaialble 1920 - 1100HP
MJS250 - Based on EMD SW Series diesel - Available 1940 - 600HP
Kelling 3100 - Based on F7 Diesel - Available 1950 - 1500 HP
MJS1000 - Based on EMD GP series - Available 1960 - 2200HP
CS2400 - Based on Alco Century series - Available 1968 - 2400HP
Centennial - Based on EMD wide cab diesel - Available 1972 - 6900HP
Turner Turbo - Based on UAC Turbo - Available 1978 - 3500HP
CS4000 - Based on GE "Dash 8" series - Available 1988 - 4000HP

I also was tinkering and added trucks to Zephyris' freight cars. passenger cars to follow

Zephyris · **Joined:** Wed May 16, 2007 4:59 pm **Posts:** 2624

Really nice work on teh trains and wagons! I look forward to seeing the finished product!

On a side note, I have made a version of newTerrain which includes the (currently) patch only features snow in temperate and complete shorelines. Is there anyone with TTDpatch who wouldn't mind testing it before I release it?

athanasios · **Joined:** Thu Jun 23, 2005 12:09 am **Posts:** 3138

DanMack: I like your work so far.

skidd13: Nice replacements.
1. I think ZZZZ sprite should not include any extra pointer. It is just busy sprite. Now for yellow and black: Must have something more colorful I believe (don't know if mine in previous post is a good start or colors will differ completely from original).
2. Oops: You didn't anti-alias a couple of yellow arrows. Please do not forget them.
3. Dynamite looks a bit dark. I did a recolor.
4. X to Y arrow points to both letters. Not very clear solution to my opinion. What about replacing X and Y with A and B or 2 crosshairs or 2 points and keep them in original position?
5. Personally I would go for cross-hair instead of circle.
6. Circle could be better if it merged with the rest, so I made a sprite with similar colors.
7. Finally I offer my suggestion. Arrow and part of arrow merged nicely similar to original but more elegant to my opinion (Feel free to modify/beautify*).

* Dark part SE is cast shadow. Might need something similar on rest sprites. Also It might need to get more 3D to fit better with rest. 1 pixel more for edges?

regards
athanasios

FooBar · **Posted:** Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:41 am

Personally, I prefer the cursors without a grey background thingy. Currently, it obstructs a lot of the view. Now that we have the chance, I'd say, get rid of it.

One can argue about the shape of the pointer itself. The one Zephyris drew might be a bit large, but I think that a circle is hard to spot in 'default' mode (i.e. without an image attached).

Engines look very nice, DanMacK!

athanasios · **Joined:** Thu Jun 23, 2005 12:09 am **Posts:** 3138

About cursors:
Can we have all of them and let player to choose? All OSes come with a bundle of cursors for each taste. Why not OpenTTD? :mrgreen:

Mchl · **Posted:** Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:04 am

Good idea! Let's make OTTD OS!

Anyway, when there are several cursor sets, one of them has to be chosen as a default one anyways.

athanasios · **Joined:** Thu Jun 23, 2005 12:09 am **Posts:** 3138

Yep, and the rest through a parameter or a separate GRF. :idea:

OTTD is not going to get confined to a single GRF. Maybe even larger versions for those who use XL resolutions...
Pity we cannot have transparent cursors in 8bpp.

LordAzamath · **Joined:** Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:00 am **Posts:** 1656

Athanasios.. let's make a deal.. I try to code a custom cursor newgrf with parameters, so you can set which cursor set to use, and you make cursors with alpha channel.. Yes I mean for 32bpp

EDIT: Under cover of secret I may tell you I have coded those Skidd15's sprites, but it's for testing for only him...

Zephyris · **Joined:** Wed May 16, 2007 4:59 pm **Posts:** 2624

Re: DanMacK
Have you done anything with the mail/passenger carriages? I think it may be worth extending them to 29/30px, which would be a good compromise between the "gappy" look of original trains and the better look used by grf sets (UKRS for example).

skidd13 · **Posted:** Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:57 am

athanasios wrote:

1. I think ZZZZ sprite should not include any extra pointer. It is just busy sprite. Now for yellow and black: Must have something more colorful I believe (don't know if mine in previous post is a good start or colors will differ completely from original).

They are drawn with in action colors, so you have to check them in game

athanasios wrote:

2. Oops: You didn't anti-alias a couple of yellow arrows. Please do not forget them.

Done

athanasios wrote:

3. Dynamite looks a bit dark. I did a recolor.

Looks to pink IMO

athanasios wrote:

4. X to Y arrow points to both letters. Not very clear solution to my opinion. What about replacing X and Y with A and B or 2 crosshairs or 2 points and keep them in original position?

How would you describe a point... with X and Y coordinate

athanasios wrote:

6. Circle could be better if it merged with the rest, so I made a sprite with similar colors.

I highlighted it cause it'll catch the users eye better.

athanasios wrote:

7. Finally I offer my suggestion. Arrow and part of arrow merged nicely similar to original but more elegant to my opinion.

Nice atempt. I'll check what I can do with it.

FooBar wrote:

Personally, I prefer the cursors without a grey background thingy. Currently, it obstructs a lot of the view. Now that we have the chance, I'd say, get rid of it.

The problem with cursors without background in 8bpp is that they might get lost on the screen. Their borders might appear too hard too.

FooBar wrote:

One can argue about the shape of the pointer itself. The one Zephyris drew might be a bit large, but I think that a circle is hard to spot in 'default' mode (i.e. without an image attached).

Did you read my post? I drew an alternative to the circle!

FooBar · **Posted:** Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:58 am

skidd13 wrote:

The problem with cursors without background in 8bpp is that they might get lost on the screen. Their borders might appear too hard too.

Yes, that might be a problem indeed... Agreed.

Quote:

Did you read my post? I drew an alternative to the circle!

Yes, I did, but it seems that I missed the images :wink:

Maybe I like a combination of both your and Athanasios' alternative cursor.
Something like the one in the image below, but better

But i still like the circle. Is there no other way to get that in without it getting 'lost'?

Also, the TNT should be more red IMO

athanasios · **Joined:** Thu Jun 23, 2005 12:09 am **Posts:** 3138

FooBar: Your last suggestion obstructs more...

As I said, anything would look fine in 32 bpp with transparency on the grey part, and keeping solid the object it displays, but here we have to balance between obstructing less and maintaining visibility of image in cursor. The cursor I made, if we use a cursor and not anything else (circle, crosshair) obstructs less (compared to original) and so do the rounded boxes of skidd13. Unless someone can help us use transparency. Make inner part of boxes display like the transparent buildings, keep an outline and add an extra tranparent outline outside for smoothing. I suppose this needs a lot of new code in trunk. Or am I wrong?

regards
athanasios

DanMacK · **Posted:** Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:59 pm

Zephyris wrote:

Re: DanMacK
Have you done anything with the mail/passenger carriages? I think it may be worth extending them to 29/30px, which would be a good compromise between the "gappy" look of original trains and the better look used by grf sets (UKRS for example).

Actually, yes, I have thought of that. It's in-progress

I'll preview when get home. Also would it be too much out of the replacement" part to add a tender to the Wills and the other steamers? (set it up as an articulated loco in the newgrf?)

Zephyris · **Joined:** Wed May 16, 2007 4:59 pm **Posts:** 2624

By all means set it up with a tender in the newGRF, but for the final graphics replacement itll have to be left out. I am seeing a real demand for "OpenGFXPlus!" where additional grf features can be used. My list now includes:
Temperate snow
Complete shores
Variable snow line
Climate specific road markings
Left/right hand drive specific road markings
[Narrow gauge rail]
Snowline sensitive trees/houses/industries for temperate and sub-arctic
Desert sensitive houses for sub tropical
2cc vehicles
Articulated road vehicles
Trams
Articulated trains (tenders)
Livery overrides for D/EMUs
General addition and tweaking of vehicles

Which reminds me, how easy is it to patch OpenTTD so it recognises if 2cc are present in the sprites for vehicles/stations/depots in trg1r.grf etc. and if present use it? It seemed simple to add 1cc support to the inner wall of the depot according to whether the sprite had cc present in it... 2cc in the default graphics would be great...

*edit* preferably set up the new graphics and articulation in this kind of structure:

actionA - replace engine graphics to new graphics

action0 - use new graphics
action1 - both tender and engine
action2s - define new graphics and articulation
action3 - apply new graphics

I know its redundant, but it would make it simpler to extract the new engine graphics from the grf in the future...

*edit* *again!* And could you list which carriages you have modified significantly (excluding adding the undercarriage) - I noticed the oil and water particularly. This is so I can update the road vehicles without too much effort...

skidd13 · **Posted:** Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:31 pm

FooBar wrote:

But i still like the circle. Is there no other way to get that in without it getting 'lost'?

I defenetly will finish the circle ones, but It's easy to convert them to the others and vice versa. Its kinda funny that the princip of spotting the center and click inside is so deep in the mind.

athanasios wrote:

As I said, anything would look fine in 32 bpp with transparency on the grey part, and keeping solid the object it displays, but here we have to balance between obstructing less and maintaining visibility of image in cursor.

Agreed.

athanasios wrote:

The cursor I made, if we use a cursor and not anything else (circle, crosshair) obstructs less (compared to original) and so do the rounded boxes of skidd13.

Either I can't understand english or the sentence is broken. I guess you want to say... Don't do too complex stuff for simple users

athanasios wrote:

Unless someone can help us use transparency. Make inner part of boxes display like the transparent buildings, keep an outline and add an extra tranparent outline outside for smoothing. I suppose this needs a lot of new code in trunk. Or am I wrong?

The problem with it is backward compatibility. OpenTTD should never ever loose the ability to use the TTD sprites. And IMO the only acceptable way is with 32bpp, where you can do such things in the sprite.

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